[Peter69]

Hello my name is Peter, new to the forum and first thread.

I'm struggling to get a weld pool happening, I'll attach some images, any ideas?

Lincoln 201 AC/DC Tig
Settings:
AC have tried with and (mostly) without pulse.
Amps 80 to 140 3mm (4mm piece tried up to 200).
AC frequency tried 50 to 100.
Balance 10 to 50%, mostly around 25-30, 50 ate the tungsten fast.
Pre flow 3 sec, start amps 20, up slope 2 sec, down slope 2 sec, end amps 10, post flow 5 sec.
Using 2T.
No. 6 cup.
2.4mm 2% lanthanated tungsten.
Gas flow I have tried from 6 to 15 LPM mostly 7 or 8.

So a typical setting is...
AC frequency 75
AC balance 25
Amps 110
No pulse
Gas flow 7lpm

Tungsten turns blue/grey quickly.
Can't get a clean weld pool, crusty black pepper, material starts to sink, just seems to almost blow through large area (see underside).

Material is brand new just peeled the plastic of it, wiped with acetone also.

Any more info required? Thanks for reading.

[Oscar]

Did you buy anodized aluminum? What alloy is it? You have some cleaning action so that is a good sign, but tuck in that tungsten about 3mm inward; you should just have about 2mm sticking out past the cup (unless you REALLY up your flow rate). Your gas flow seems good for a #6 cup (7-8LPM, about 15 CFH). Double check ALL of your gas connections and make sure they are snug, and use soapy water to make sure you don't have a leak. Brass fittings can easily get stratched. Check the connection inside the TIG torch as well. If all that is ok, then take a brand new, dedicated stainless steel brush, and scrub a section of the aluminum (I don't care how new it is, lol), but stroke in only one direction, with very light pressure. You want to remove any oxides without embedding them further into the material.

[TraditionalToolworks]

My comments, not an expert or even weld with aluminum, waiting on my first AC capable machine as I type.

1) Your bottom image looks like a gas problem. Yout LPM looks correct as CFH is about twice, so I think that is correct.

2) You didn't mention torch angle, and that may or may not be an issue.

3) Your tungsten looks contaminated.

[Oscar]

2) You didn't mention torch angle, and that may or may not be an issue.

I agree it could be a problem, along with the long stickout. All 4 have to work together: gas flowrate, stickout, arc length and torch angle.

This is my stickout with a #7 cup, and I use a gas lens! Compare:



My arc length is for the most part never more than 2-3mm. If the arc is 4mm long plus 8-10mm of stickout, then the cup is at least 1/2" from the metal, factor in too much torch angle, and you lost a lot of shielding gas coverage.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I agree it could be a problem, along with the long stickout. All 3 have to work together: gas flowrate, stickout, and torch angle.

Oscar,

Doesn't the bottom pic look like a gas issue?

Look at his tungsten in the top pic, pretty fugly...

I'm really trying to understand myself.

[Oscar]

I agree it could be a problem, along with the long stickout. All 3 have to work together: gas flowrate, stickout, and torch angle.

Oscar,

Doesn't the bottom pic look like a gas issue?

Look at his tungsten in the top pic, pretty fugly...

I'm really trying to understand myself.

It could be, but gas issues are highly impacted by incorrect technique. For example, everything could be correct, but with a 1" arc length, it will all go southbound real fast, lol.


Peter, this is a good video overall, but look especially at the part that starts at 11:09

FvsyKo8WRx8

[tweake]

Hello my name is Peter, new to the forum and first thread.

I'm struggling to get a weld pool happening, I'll attach some images, any ideas?

Lincoln 201 AC/DC Tig
Settings:
AC have tried with and (mostly) without pulse.
Amps 80 to 140 3mm (4mm piece tried up to 200).
AC frequency tried 50 to 100.
Balance 10 to 50%, mostly around 25-30, 50 ate the tungsten fast.
Pre flow 3 sec, start amps 20, up slope 2 sec, down slope 2 sec, end amps 10, post flow 5 sec.
Using 2T.
No. 6 cup.
2.4mm 2% lanthanated tungsten.
Gas flow I have tried from 6 to 15 LPM mostly 7 or 8.

So a typical setting is...
AC frequency 75
AC balance 25
Amps 110
No pulse
Gas flow 7lpm

Tungsten turns blue/grey quickly.

the tungsten looks like a gas issue. check collet, back cap is fitting and sealing on the o ring. cup is sitting properly on the correct insulator.
no leaks in the hose connections.

your stick out looks really long. try about half that.

your post flow may not be long enough. hard to tell if you have a gas issue. might pay to extend it to 10 seconds and see if the tungsten changes color before or after the gas stops.
having a contaminated tungsten doesn't help.
pre flow is typically 0.3 sec. often hear the pulse of gas come through.

balance 30 is fine.

amps, still at bit low for 3mm.
aluminium you want a fair bit of heat so it puddles in a few seconds. if you sit and wait for a puddle you end up overheating the work piece.
one of the reasons you want decent post flow time is to let the tungsten cool down from high amps. if its to hot when the gas turns off it will oxidise in the air.

the only catch is tungsten grind. i think many people do a grind the same as what they do for steel which is a fine point. problem with that is if you hit it with high amps it melts back or outright blows the tip off and that can containment the weld.
someone once mentioned to make it look like a crayon tip, which i think is about right. quite a steep grind with the tip cut off.

[Peter69]

Thanks for all the replies, I will implement the ideas tomorrow and see if I get some improvement.

Regrind tungsten, shorten stick out, extend post flow, check when tungsten discolouration occurs. Wire brush aluminium.

[Oscar]

Thanks for all the replies, I will implement the ideas tomorrow and see if I get some improvement.

Regrind tungsten, shorten stick out, extend post flow, check when tungsten discolouration occurs. Wire brush aluminium.

You forgot two important ones.

[Peter69]

Ok so I've implemented the changes, the biggest improvement I think came from tungsten stick out length. Tungsten remained clean and some beads were formed.

I decreased pre gas flow to 1 second and increased post gas flow to 10 seconds.
Amps increased to 110, I tried 120 was getting a little warm, trial and error from here.
AC frequency 80.
AC balance 30.

Thankyou for all the suggestions, obviously need a lot more practise and some tweaking of settings but at least I now have a base to work off.

Hopefully this thread can help someone else out.

You forgot two important ones.

What did I miss?

.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Ok so I've implemented the changes, the biggest improvement I think came from tungsten stick out length. Tungsten remained clean and some beads were formed.

There's some crud on the end of it, maybe it's just the pic.

What did I miss?.

I'll take a guess as Oscar might have other things in mind, but I'm gonna say:

1) angle of your torch
2) distance of electrode to metal

Both of these will greatly effect the weld. If you keep the electrode too far away the arc will fan out and become erratic. You should keep the distance of your electrode to be within 1/16" - 1/8" from the metal if possible. If you angle the torch too much the gas will shoot out beyond your puddle and create problems as well.

[Peter69]

Ok so I've implemented the changes, the biggest improvement I think came from tungsten stick out length. Tungsten remained clean and some beads were formed.

There's some crud on the end of it, maybe it's just the pic.

What did I miss?.

I'll take a guess as Oscar might have other things in mind, but I'm gonna say:

1) angle of your torch
2) distance of electrode to metal

Both of these will greatly effect the weld. If you keep the electrode too far away the arc will fan out and become erratic. You should keep the distance of your electrode to be within 1/16" - 1/8" from the metal if possible. If you angle the torch too much the gas will shoot out beyond your puddle and create problems as well.

Thanks!

[Oscar]

Yup, arc length and torch angle can get out of control fast because your mind is trying to juggle 5-6 new things it is not used to. You're using both arms, hands, fingers, and a foot if you are using a foot pedal. There is a lot of muscle memory that your brain is trying to forge all at once (if you're not careful). This is why it is commonly suggested for new TIG'ers to learn to simply create a single puddle and learn how to scoot it down a line, little by little, to slowly build up the muscle memory one area at a time. But you definitely need to be cognizant of your arc length and your torch angle at all times. I think the toughest one is torch angle because we need to see the puddle and the tip of the tungsten to keep the arc length constant, but we also need to keep the arc cone directed perpendicular/normal to the surface to minimize flaring it out and prematurely melting the filler rod. All one big balancing act.

[tweake]

Ok so I've implemented the changes, the biggest improvement I think came from tungsten stick out length. Tungsten remained clean and some beads were formed.

I decreased pre gas flow to 1 second and increased post gas flow to 10 seconds.
Amps increased to 110, I tried 120 was getting a little warm, trial and error from here.
AC frequency 80.
AC balance 30.

pre gas flow can be really short. 0.2sec is heaps.



that still looks like your grinding a long skinny taper on the tungsten.
see how it looks now, thats kinda what you want to grind it to, tho i would use a much steeper angle.

as far as amps go, you really need more. but keep in mind a small bit of aluminium like that will heat up really quickly and reduce your need for amps.
so let it cool right down between beads. need to get used to having high amps at the start.

[Peter69]

Yup, arc length and torch angle can get out of control fast because your mind is trying to juggle 5-6 new things it is not used to. You're using both arms, hands, fingers, and a foot if you are using a foot pedal. There is a lot of muscle memory that your brain is trying to forge all at once (if you're not careful). This is why it is commonly suggested for new TIG'ers to learn to simply create a single puddle and learn how to scoot it down a line, little by little, to slowly build up the muscle memory one area at a time. But you definitely need to be cognizant of your arc length and your torch angle at all times. I think the toughest one is torch angle because we need to see the puddle and the tip of the tungsten to keep the arc length constant, but we also need to keep the arc cone directed perpendicular/normal to the surface to minimize flaring it out and prematurely melting the filler rod. All one big balancing act.

Yes really struggling with feeding the filler rod, about to YouTube some tips. Thanks for all the advice.

Ok so I've implemented the changes, the biggest improvement I think came from tungsten stick out length. Tungsten remained clean and some beads were formed.

I decreased pre gas flow to 1 second and increased post gas flow to 10 seconds.
Amps increased to 110, I tried 120 was getting a little warm, trial and error from here.
AC frequency 80.
AC balance 30.

pre gas flow can be really short. 0.2sec is heaps.



that still looks like your grinding a long skinny taper on the tungsten.
see how it looks now, thats kinda what you want to grind it to, tho i would use a much steeper angle.

as far as amps go, you really need more. but keep in mind a small bit of aluminium like that will heat up really quickly and reduce your need for amps.
so let it cool right down between beads. need to get used to having high amps at the start.

Trying to grind it like a crayon. I noticed the piece getting too hot and weld starting to sink, even on a longer piece today I had to limit weld lengths, space them apart and allow cooling.

Can see the advantage of a foot pedal, will purchase one in a few weeks when money permits.

This was on some 47yr old 1.6mm painted aluminium cut and cleaned off a tinny, 80 amps

...

[BillE.Dee]

Peter, you're getting it...just try running beads for a while before adding filler. You'll want to end up with a nice shiny line of beads all being the same width. Don't rush it, it will take practice and then it will take some more practice. I found that thicker material is easier to learn on. Have fun with it and be patient ,, Grasshopper.
Gramps.

[Peter69]

Peter, you're getting it...just try running beads for a while before adding filler. You'll want to end up with a nice shiny line of beads all being the same width. Don't rush it, it will take practice and then it will take some more practice. I found that thicker material is easier to learn on. Have fun with it and be patient ,, Grasshopper.
Gramps.

Thanks Gramps, I'll practise until (at least I think) I'm good and then I'll practise a whole lot more!

[Arno]

Trying to grind it like a crayon. I noticed the piece getting too hot and weld starting to sink, even on a longer piece today I had to limit weld lengths, space them apart and allow cooling.

Can see the advantage of a foot pedal, will purchase one in a few weeks when money permits.

No pedal on alu, esp. thin stuff makes it hard.

As you can't vary the power/heat input you will have to compensate with travel speed.

Aka. At first when the part is cold, amps are lowish for that condition and you need to go slow and wait for the puddle to form and not over-fill it. But then the part starts to heat up and your (fixed) input power is now melting stuff much faster so you need to bump up the travel speed and filler dabs and keep going faster as you go along..

A workaround you can do is to switch the machine to a 2T setting and use the ramp-up and ramp-down settings of the machine to 'pulse' the heat into the part. Eg. when it gets hot, release the button and then only tap it a few times to keep the arc lit, but at very low amps. Then keep it pressed again when things are no longer melting out of control.

Still not as intuitive as a pedal to reduce the heat input as the part gets saturated, but it works in a pinch.

Bye, Arno.

[Peter69]

Trying to grind it like a crayon. I noticed the piece getting too hot and weld starting to sink, even on a longer piece today I had to limit weld lengths, space them apart and allow cooling.

Can see the advantage of a foot pedal, will purchase one in a few weeks when money permits.

No pedal on alu, esp. thin stuff makes it hard.

As you can't vary the power/heat input you will have to compensate with travel speed.

Aka. At first when the part is cold, amps are lowish for that condition and you need to go slow and wait for the puddle to form and not over-fill it. But then the part starts to heat up and your (fixed) input power is now melting stuff much faster so you need to bump up the travel speed and filler dabs and keep going faster as you go along..

A workaround you can do is to switch the machine to a 2T setting and use the ramp-up and ramp-down settings of the machine to 'pulse' the heat into the part. Eg. when it gets hot, release the button and then only tap it a few times to keep the arc lit, but at very low amps. Then keep it pressed again when things are no longer melting out of control.

Still not as intuitive as a pedal to reduce the heat input as the part gets saturated, but it works in a pinch.

Bye, Arno.

Hi Arno, yes I did try the ramping up and down method using 2T with some success, I also tried using the pulse function without much luck. The pulse ratio setting was confusing me but I've now got my head around it so I will try again.

Someone suggested pre heating the workpiece so less amps are required initial when starting the puddle, I think I'll purchase a pedal asap.

Thanks for your input!

[Spartan]

I think I'll purchase a pedal asap.

Always a good idea to call the welder manufacturer to get the pedal from them, or to verify with them that an aftermarket pedal will be compatible. Because even if the plug is the exact same, the pin-outs can be different and often are, and resistor values can vary. Pedals are a real pain when it comes to compatibility...at least that's been my experience.

[LtBadd]

I think I'll purchase a pedal asap.

Always a good idea to call the welder manufacturer to get the pedal from them, or to verify with them that an aftermarket pedal will be compatible. Because even if the plug is the exact same, the pin-outs can be different and often are, and resistor values can vary. Pedals are a real pain when it comes to compatibility...at least that's been my experience.

If the OP is in the US then I'd suggest a call to SSC Controls, they can help providing the right pedal for his machine.

[Peter69]

I think I'll purchase a pedal asap.

Always a good idea to call the welder manufacturer to get the pedal from them, or to verify with them that an aftermarket pedal will be compatible. Because even if the plug is the exact same, the pin-outs can be different and often are, and resistor values can vary. Pedals are a real pain when it comes to compatibility...at least that's been my experience.

If the OP is in the US then I'd suggest a call to SSC Controls, they can help providing the right pedal for his machine.

Thanks guys, I can order the specific pedal from the manufacturer for my machine.

[BugHunter]

Without reading every post , it looks almost like you have your ground and Electrode plugged in backward. It looks like you're almost running DC. Something is dramatically wrong because you have a boiled up aluminum puddle that is still covered with aluminum oxide sheet. If you are truly running AC, that covering should not be there and the only way you could have that is if you are putting more power into the aluminum then you are pulling out. In other words, DC. Or very close to it.

[Peter69]

Without reading every post , it looks almost like you have your ground and Electrode plugged in backward. It looks like you're almost running DC. Something is dramatically wrong because you have a boiled up aluminum puddle that is still covered with aluminum oxide sheet. If you are truly running AC, that covering should not be there and the only way you could have that is if you are putting more power into the aluminum then you are pulling out. In other words, DC. Or very close to it.

I think you're looking at the underside pic, machine is setup correctly, think it was more of a gas issue, once I shortened tungsten results were much better, thankyou.

[Peter69]

Thanks again for everyone's comments and help, starting to get the hang of this!