[smokelesstoast]

My shop has a job coming up that has a bevel T join called out. I've been practicing the past few days, but I cant seem to get enough penetration. I've put the bevel, down so the gravity could do its thing but that didn't help very much. I think I need to turn up the amps. If I remember my settings, Precision TIG 225 I had it set to 160, auto Square wave, no pulse, and I forget the third one. Using 3/32" 4043 filler rod and 1/8" ceriated tungsten. Metal has been clean with Simple Green and Acetone.

Thank you for you help! And if Jody has/can do a video, that would be awesome!

[weldin mike 27]

That's no where near enough heat. You may not even get enough with that machine cranked right up. Any chance of switching to a bigger machine?

[tweake]

just looking up my miller chart here, it list that at 280-320 amps.
interestingly with mig its about 180-210 amps.

the other thing to consider is preheat.

[Louie1961]

On my Syncrowave, with pure argon, I would dial the power up to 250-275, and feather with the pedal. On your machine, I think you will want to try a helium/argon mix instead of pure argon. It will help you get the oomph you need. Otherwise you likely won't have enough amps unless you do some significant pre heating.

[smokelesstoast]

He bought this machine about month/month and a half ago and I didn't know what machine it was until after he ordered it. Along with not seeing the print until after the fact. And I wasn't consulted about what machine to get. I was going to suggest a Miller Dynasty but oh well here we are.

I can crack it up to 230, as that is the max it'll go and put it on full penetration. Ill have to see if we can swap out the tank for a argon/helium mix (75%/25% ?) Will also try preheating it.

Thank you guys!

[TraditionalToolworks]

just looking up my miller chart here, it list that at 280-320 amps.
interestingly with mig its about 180-210 amps.

the other thing to consider is preheat.

tweake,

I can't speak for your miller chart, but if you go to this calculator on the miller website, the numbers are not nearly what your chart says for it.

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/w ... calculator

3/32" electrode (ALL)
#8-#12 cup (ALL)
25 cfh (ALL seems high on argon for a #8)

1/4" Fillet - 170-190 amps
1/4" Corner - 140-170 amps
1/4" Lap - 160-180 amps
1/4" Butt - 190-220 amps

I'd say according to that chart he's got enough amps with his Lincoln.

smokelesstoast,

See this video Jody did:

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Also see this one, welding 1/4" aluminum on 210 amps:

751itHLbb6Q

[tweake]

just looking up my miller chart here, it list that at 280-320 amps.
interestingly with mig its about 180-210 amps.

the other thing to consider is preheat.

tweake,

I can't speak for your miller chart, but if you go to this calculator on the miller website, the numbers are not nearly what your chart says for it.

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/w ... calculator

the online calc is wrong.
its showing aluminium requires less amps than steel (and stainless steel).
1/4" fillet, steel 250-325 amps, aluminium 170-190.


that pretty poor of miller to screw that up.

[cj737]

He’s got enough amps. He DOES need to run balance closer to 80 though and scrub the surface with a stainless brush and maybe a preheat. But he can get that job done if he’s conscientious and runs a test or two for penetration. After about 4” he will be feathering that pedal to prevent melting the aluminum I’d wager.

[TraditionalToolworks]

that pretty poor of miller to screw that up.

I guess it's like Abe Lincoln said, "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet...", and Abe Lincoln would know about welding...he created Lincoln Electric before electricity was invented...go figure...

Seems like trying to understand electrical information posted online as well as on the actual welders itself...confusing at best...

[Louie1961]

By the way, if you add helium to the mix, you will need lower amps. Helium boost the heat of the arc.

[Louie1961]

After about 4” he will be feathering that pedal to prevent melting the aluminum I’d wager.

Not really. After a couple of inches he will hit his duty cycle limit on that machine unless he adds helium. Duty cycle is 10% at 230 amps. At 180 amps he still only has a 20% duty cycle. If the project requires more than a couple of minutes of welding, that machine will need some help.

[smokelesstoast]

Thank you all for the help! It is much appreciated! I found out that boss man order the wrong welder... The one that should have been ordered was the Precision Tig 275. We are playing out our options.

I did a pre-heat and that got me close, like I am almost there. I also, slowed down a lot to let it get down in there but it starts to melt the edges off (Had a scarp part to practice on). I am going to strongly recommend a helium/argon mix of 25%/75%, as I think that will give me enough oomph to get that last little bit. Would the weld puddle be a bit smaller with helium mixed in? And its about 12" long weld. They've had other shops around town do them before and they said they had to start and stop due to the heat.

We are going to get a WPS for this and I was wondering, will a mixed gas effect that WPS?

Thank you guys!

[cj737]

Thank you all for the help! It is much appreciated! I found out that boss man order the wrong welder... The one that should have been ordered was the Precision Tig 275. We are playing out our options.

I did a pre-heat and that got me close, like I am almost there. I also, slowed down a lot to let it get down in there but it starts to melt the edges off (Had a scarp part to practice on). I am going to strongly recommend a helium/argon mix of 25%/75%, as I think that will give me enough oomph to get that last little bit. Would the weld puddle be a bit smaller with helium mixed in? And its about 12" long weld. They've had other shops around town do them before and they said they had to start and stop due to the heat.

We are going to get a WPS for this and I was wondering, will a mixed gas effect that WPS?

Thank you guys!

You can also run a pass over the weld area, no filler. Use enough amps to “clean” the oxide layer. Breaking up that layer allows you to run a filler pass with less heat and still get the penetration you require. A preheat prior to will help further.

Generally, a WPS lists the gases accepted. If it doesn’t state Ar/He, it’s likely not allowed.

[BugHunter]

Go up to a 1/8 inch tungsten. You're not carrying enough current.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Go up to a 1/8 inch tungsten. You're not carrying enough current.

Are people in agreement on this?

If so, at what amperage do you folks change from 3/32" to 1/8" electrodes?

[tweake]

Go up to a 1/8 inch tungsten. You're not carrying enough current.

Are people in agreement on this?

If so, at what amperage do you folks change from 3/32" to 1/8" electrodes?

not sure on amps, somewhere over 150 amp up to 180 amps. that was on some thicker joint configs on 1/8" aluminium.
you would vaporise a 3/32 tungsten welding 1/4' aluminium.

[cj737]

Go up to a 1/8 inch tungsten. You're not carrying enough current.

Are people in agreement on this?

If so, at what amperage do you folks change from 3/32" to 1/8" electrodes?

Not everyone. I use a 3/32 for almost all the welding I do. My machine has a 200amp rating, and whether steel or aluminum the 3/32 works perfectly well on max amperage.

There are lots of people who use a single size tungsten for all their work; Aaron at 6061 uses a 1/8 for even the smallest work he does. I think Kane tends to drop drop to an 0.040 for some of his high detail work. It really is whatever you're comfortable with and capable of. And I run my 17 torch all the way to 200 amps without issue. Yes, it gets hot at times, but TIG welding involves lots of downtime and interruptions so it nor my tungsten have ever vaporized.

[Louie1961]

Go up to a 1/8 inch tungsten. You're not carrying enough current.

Are people in agreement on this?

If so, at what amperage do you folks change from 3/32" to 1/8" electrodes?

I find that using a 1/8th inch tungsten on AC helps prevent balling/deformation of the point when I am welding on AC. I use 2% lanthanated for everything, but I tend to stick to 3/32 for steel and 1/8 for aluminum. I like to shape them like a crayon with the tip slightly blunted. The 3/32 electrodes will work ok up to 200 amps, but they don't seem to hold a point as well on AC above 170/180 amps

[Spartan]

I bump up to a 1/8" tungsten at about the 180 amp point when running AC. At those amperages, the thicker tungsten handles the heat much better, lasts longer, and gives a more stable arc for a longer period of time.

I use every size from 1/8" down to 0.040". Never understood why people try to always stick with a one-size-fits-all tungsten size that often just seems to make the job harder...at least in my experience. Only takes 30 seconds to swap out for a different size.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I've seen more than a few say exactly what cj mentions, that they use 3/32" electrodes all the way up to 200 amps. And I see others that use #17 torches up to 200 amps also. As I get into aluminum, this may be more of an issue as the machine I just received yesterday goes up to 225 amps. I do have a #26, so maybe I can push that up to 225 if needed, at least for short lengths.

I've known that Aaron (6061.com) uses 1/8" for all his work, that is pretty well known. I wonder if his reasoning is that it holds the amperage better? There's quite a bit that one needs to take for granted with his videos as there is no voice. Maybe he has voice on his pay-for-play, but I'm unlikely to find out.

One other thing, for those of you who create a crayon type tip on your electrode for aluminum, how do you do that? I may need to re-think my tungsten sharpening process, I currently use a small dremel adapter which uses collets on it, and one problem is when the tungsten gets anything on it, even if it was balled up the end won't fit in the collet. I can get around that by removing the collet and sticking the electrode in to remove any excess, then use the collet again, but there is no good way to insert the tip in perpendicular to the diamond wheel and adding a hole in the plastic cover doesn't seem wise, dust wise. How do you guys go about creating the crayon tip?

[Spartan]

I only use either a bench grinder or a bench belt sander to sharpen tungstens, so I just touch the tip of the tungsten to the abrasive very lightly and quickly at a perpendicular angle after I have finished putting the fresh grind on the tungsten. I only make a very small flat on the tip. Maybe 0.030" or so.

[tweake]

nor my tungsten have ever vaporized.

i guess your not running 250+ amps to weld 1/4" aluminium.

[tweake]

One other thing, for those of you who create a crayon type tip on your electrode for aluminum, how do you do that?

just nip the end off with the grinding wheel.
i try to grind it so it looks similar to what it looks like when your using it.

its worth mentioning that jody does the opposite. a lot of his video's he uses a sharp point to get good starts for his tacks.
so everyone is a bit different in their approaches.
i think a lot of it comes down to size of tungsten vers the heat input into it. for eg with 1/8 tungsten i leave it as a point and it rounds nicely. thats because at 180 amps the tungsten can handle the heat really easily.

[cj737]

nor my tungsten have ever vaporized.

i guess your not running 250+ amps to weld 1/4" aluminium.

Nope. As stated above, my machine maxes out at 200. I’ll preheat and I do use a 25% He mix to get me the heat I need. Works a treat.

I have swapped in a 1/8” when doing some 5/8” aluminum. Also ran my 26 torch. Was a rear MFer to get done with only 200 amps, but 3 years later, the bracket doesn’t have a crack in it. So it must have been good

[tweake]

nor my tungsten have ever vaporized.

i guess your not running 250+ amps to weld 1/4" aluminium.

Nope. As stated above, my machine maxes out at 200. I’ll preheat and I do use a 25% He mix to get me the heat I need. Works a treat.

I have swapped in a 1/8” when doing some 5/8” aluminum. Also ran my 26 torch. Was a rear MFer to get done with only 200 amps, but 3 years later, the bracket doesn’t have a crack in it. So it must have been good