[blbd]

I wanted to ask about some inconsistent information floating around out there about starting out TIG welding aluminum right the first time. This question is for an air cooled #17 HeliArc torch that comes stock with an ESAB Rebel 205ic (MTS machine).

Roy (and often Jody too) recommends using #5 cups for saving gas and focusing in the cleaning action very tightly around the puddle and weld bead and using stubby collet bodies because gas lenses are pricier, clog more easily, and don't improve gas flow enough to be worthwhile. You guys also recommend Pyrex cups to see more clearly (which are nearly never available in anything but huge sizes that waste lots of gas), and a stubby gas lens kit from the Weldmonger store with TIG fingers included so you don't cook your torch hand.

Other people recommend wedge collets from CK to avoid ruining the crappy normal collets when your air cooled torch gets hot.

Here's what's killing me: I haven't found a single kit including all these things bundled together and guaranteed to work together without screwing everything up for a new guy trying to do as mine of the job correctly as possible from the very beginning.

How do I take all of this hard-won expert advice and combine it all together to get the best possible results? Are there any other important accessory related things you need to do?

[cj737]

You don't need a gas lens for cup sizes below a #6. Collet bodies work perfectly. Above a #6, a gas lens performs better due to smoothed out gas flow and shielding.

Pyrex cups or ceramic, its mostly preference. Millions of miles of welds have been performed with ceramic. If you're new, a Pyrex can help. The Weldmonger Store does have kits with #5, #8 pyrex and stubby kits. Wedge collets or not, don't fret. They're consumables and you will need more.

Welding aluminum involves higher amps, so wedge collets can distort over time and become unusable. Throw it away and replace it.

Don't get hung up on perfect accessories, spend more time practicing and practicing the things you suck at, like overhead, left-handed (if you're right handed) and out of position. Experience and hood time accounts for far more than "superman kits".

[Oscar]

You don't need a gas lens for cup sizes below a #6. Collet bodies work perfectly. Above a #6, a gas lens performs better due to smoothed out gas flow and shielding.

Pyrex cups or ceramic, its mostly preference. Millions of miles of welds have been performed with ceramic. If you're new, a Pyrex can help. The Weldmonger Store does have kits with #5, #8 pyrex and stubby kits. Wedge collets or not, don't fret. They're consumables and you will need more.

Welding aluminum involves higher amps, so wedge collets can distort over time and become unusable. Throw it away and replace it.

Don't get hung up on perfect accessories, spend more time practicing and practicing the things you suck at, like overhead, left-handed (if you're right handed) and out of position. Experience and hood time accounts for far more than "superman kits".

Completely agree. And even then, there are still other things that can go wrong that a new TIG weldor doesn't even realize is an issue. Torch assembled wrong with the correct parts, torch assembled correctly with the wrong parts, gas leaks, HF contact points if the machine has them, and this and that and the other, and a host of other things that we haven't even thought of yet! Get a basic set-up working so you know everything else is in order, so that way you don't inadvertently blame fancy accessories.

[LtBadd]

Roy (and often Jody too) recommends using #5 cups for saving gas and focusing in the cleaning action very tightly around the puddle and weld bead and using stubby collet bodies because gas lenses are pricier, clog more easily, and don't improve gas flow enough to be worthwhile.

CJ and Oscar are spot on, while gas lens may cost a little more, it's not really that much and I promise you these parts are included in their (Roy and Jody) TIG toolbox.
There is a time and place for all things, I use a gas lens much more then a standard collet body when welding aluminum, experience will tell you when to use which setup, and even then the weld could have been completed using either setup successfully, 9 out of 10 times.

Experience and hood time accounts for far more than "superman kits"

Wish I would have said that

[Bill Beauregard]

I've been at it a while, still get confused.

You haven't said what you weld. Steel is different from aluminum. Thick is different from thin.

A gas lens is a faucet aerator. You can live without, but it's nice to have. I haven't found that it doesn't work on cup sizes smaller than #6. I almost never use #6. I tend to leave #7 on most of the time. I do mostly aluminum, some steel, some cast Iron, and a little stainless. I suppose if I did a lot of autobody work I'd use #6 more.

I suggest choosing one manufacturer. I once had a # 17 torch, I can't remember part numbers. Somewhere I bet somebody has a chart. I'd choose a gas lens, a #7 cup, 3/32 & 1/16 sizes. If I had only one tungsten, it'd be 2% lanthanated. I bought large volumes of tungsten NOS early on, and bought a couple used welders that came with supplies. I've got a lot of thoriated, some lanthanated, a bit of ceriated, some tri alloy. I can barely tell the difference.

[BillE.Dee]

Experience has spoken. It's much like driving,,,everyone gets behind the wheel and makes the car go. It takes experience and windshield time to make the trip without fender benders and wrecks. Go at it a little at a time learning what makes the machine tick. You will learn that steel will be more forgiving than aluminum. Don't forget to watch the videos by Jody and Roy and the others. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Every day is a learning experience...guaranteed.

[Shondave]

Hi, I speak as a hobbist beginner,

The fact is that is quite easy for a beginner, especially a hobbist, to get caught by the wish to have the best and most various gear, I also fell into that a bit.

From my experience I can say that on various China web shops you can now find really complete kits, imho enough quality to start ad experiment various parts with no worry if you mess it or melt with too much amps.

More professional level shops tend not to make such "complete" set because of the cost but also the fact that a professionist welder know what he needs and prefer to buy that right quality part.

[tweake]

Hi, I speak as a hobbist beginner,

The fact is that is quite easy for a beginner, especially a hobbist, to get caught by the wish to have the best and most various gear, I also fell into that a bit.

From my experience I can say that on various China web shops you can now find really complete kits, imho enough quality to start ad experiment various parts with no worry if you mess it or melt with too much amps.

More professional level shops tend not to make such "complete" set because of the cost but also the fact that a professionist welder know what he needs and prefer to buy that right quality part.

from another beginner hobbyist point of view, yes you can get caught up in all the fancy gear. but you also need to try gear out to see what works for you. eg i've gone for stubby because that suits the way i hold the torch. i also use gas lens on every thing due to gas being so god damn expensive here.

i would give Chinese made stuff a miss. thats a real mixed bag of quality and hobbyist don't go through enough gear to worry about costs. the last thing you want to do is chase your tail because of poor quality gear. nothing screws up learning like fighting your rig.

thing like split collets vers wedge, splits work ok. yes they get screwed up with high amps. but you just change them. once you work out what you regularly use then get some wedge collets in of that size. good quality consumables are not really all that expensive.

[blbd]

Thanks for all the advice everybody. I've been doing some experimenting with different parts trying to figure things out. Some of the stubby accessory descriptions are kind of confusing, so I ended up ordering a few parts that weren't compatible and thus useless, but luckily they didn't cost very much.

3/32 tungsten and 3/32 filler. I've been using 2% lanthanated from Midwest Tungsten, and a random Chinese stubby gas lens kit that included the generally ideal and surprisingly hard to fix mix of alumina 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 cups. It's a bit tricky to buy stubby wedge style collets from CK and the various vendors. I'm still working on finding those for a non crazy price.

I still need to get an ideal set of glass cups to play with if anybody has experience with those. Many of them seem to come in huge sizes that seem like they might waste a lot of gas.

I've also gotten to the point where I can make some not-totally-terrible TIG beads with steel, aluminum, and silicon bronze.

[tweake]

i would not worry about glass cups. they will not make you a good welder.
biggest problem with them is they are fragile and expensive.
big cups are great with stainless. so if your only doing steel or aluminium don't worry about it.
even split or wedge collets is not going to make any real difference.

main thing is to get a combo that works. thats one of the reasons i stick with CK. you don't want to be learning and be tripping over your consumables.

when you start welding a lot and start chewing through collets or start doing projects where you need big cups or need to see in awkward places, then start getting the next level of gear.