[Kfactor239]

I'm a pretty good tig welder but I need some help. I'm welding in some subframe connectors on my firebird and most of the welding is overhead. What are some of the tricks to keep the puddle from falling?

[cj737]

Manage the heat, and use a smaller filler wire. Tight arc, and off you go.

[BillE.Dee]

CLEAN and when you think it's clean enough, clean it again and wipe it with acetone or some type cleaning solvent. Make sure brake lines and fuel lines are not around or well protected.

[cj737]

CLEAN and when you think it's clean enough, clean it again and wipe it with acetone or some type cleaning solvent. Make sure brake lines and fuel lines are not around or well protected.

Not sure how this effects the puddle succumbing to gravity?

[Kfactor239]

I did pretty good today. I cleaned everything up again. Turned my helmet down to 10 switched to a #5 cup from a #4 brought up my argon from 12 to 15. I did manage to blow a hole. Started to fill it up and instantly discovered why they sell leather welding jackets. Got burned not too bad but enough. Went to my welding supply store and bought one gladly paid $115 for it. I should have known better.

[Kfactor239]

I watched this video on YouTube https://youtu.be/6-ouU6l7h34 this guy is amazing. I've been trying my best to keep my rod next to my torch like he is saying in the video and it has helped alot.

[weldin mike 27]

CLEAN and when you think it's clean enough, clean it again and wipe it with acetone or some type cleaning solvent. Make sure brake lines and fuel lines are not around or well protected.

Not sure how this effects the puddle succumbing to gravity?

Ultra clean material allows you get the puddle formed and welding as required without having to pump in too much heat to cook out contaminates

[Lightning]

Overhead ain't much different from welding on the flat. Vertical up on the other hand...

[Cactus Welder]

Don’t slow down. Keep your travel based on what the puddle wants. Reduce your amperage slightly for overhead and vertical up. Clean the contaminates out of the weld area. Overhead should weld like any other position with TIG.

If the metal is heating to the point of falling it’s because either the amperage is too high or your travel speed is too slow or both.

Wayne

[BillE.Dee]

Not sure how this effects the puddle succumbing to gravity?

I can bet one run a way goober from Richard's 9th planet will make a mark that he wouldn't forget in a hurry.

[Kfactor239]

Well I welded the topside of this subframe connector and had some problems with it as well. As it turns out in the 80's (my car is an 88 Trans AM GTA) that they electogalvanized with zink. I found this post online about it https://www.hobartbrothers.com/index.ph ... turnid=523
Pretty interesting I found the metal cored wire he's talking about it's E70C6 (not s6) I went to my welding supply store and they looked at me funny. So I looked online and you have to buy a 33 lb roll at 3.50 lb and it's. 045 wire. So on I went searching.

[Kfactor239]

So my next idea I just to make a copper heat sink out of some pipe. I'll Cleco it to the back of the thin car metal that I'm trying to weld to my 2x3 box tube subframe connector. I can't tell you how many holes I filled this weekend.

[cj737]

So my next idea I just to make a copper heat sink out of some pipe. I'll Cleco it to the back of the thin car metal that I'm trying to weld to my 2x3 box tube subframe connector. I can't tell you how many holes I filled this weekend.

Can you provide the wire diameter you are using, the heat settings, etc. to see if perhaps some "tuning" of your current conditions can get you where you need to be?

Filler wire size and type
Amps
Cup size, CFH, tungsten size and type
Metal thickness (of your car)

[Oscar]

Well I welded the topside of this subframe connector and had some problems with it as well. As it turns out in the 80's (my car is an 88 Trans AM GTA) that they electogalvanized with zink. I found this post online about it https://www.hobartbrothers.com/index.ph ... turnid=523
Pretty interesting I found the metal cored wire he's talking about it's E70C6 (not s6) I went to my welding supply store and they looked at me funny. So I looked online and you have to buy a 33 lb roll at 3.50 lb and it's. 045 wire. So on I went searching.

E70C-6M is not exactly the same as E70C-GS. The former uses DCEP, where as the latter can use both DCEP or DCEN. I've used ER70C-6M and it runs nice in spray transfer, but you need a pulsed-spray capable MIG with a metal-core specific program to use it in out-of-position welds.

It runs really nice in the flat & horizontal position, and can easily tolerate high levels of mill-scale and rust, but you have to run an argon-rich mixture to get the spray-transfer happening. I would say 85% Ar minimum to eliminate spatter, but it runs freakin sweet on 92/8 to 98/2 Ar/CO₂, and it goes into spray around 150A for 035 wire. Even a little lower if you know what you're doing.



You can get this for ≈$2.50/lbs in the form of two 035-diameter 10lb spools for $52 or so. It's not exactly super deep root penetration compared to regular solid wire on thinner material, but that is because it goes into spray transfer at a much lower amperage. But luckily it will still run on C25, but it's more of a pseudo-short circuit-globular transfer type of thing.

[Kfactor239]

Let's see I'm using 1/16 Er70S6 rod. Amps I can't tell you I'm using just my footpedal but my machine goes to 165 amps. I'm running a #5 cup on a 3/32 red tipped tungsten and the metal thickness carts from prob 16 gauge up to maybe 1/8 or more (some pinch welds have several layers of sheetmetal) the square tube is probably 120 wall. CFH I've got set at 15

[Kfactor239]

I ran across this article about welding hot dipped galvanized Steele it's not electro galvanized but it deffinetly is telling me why I'm having such problems.

4.2.2 Gas Tungsten Arc Welding
Gas Tungsten Arc welding (GTAW or TIG) of galvanized steel is not
recommended. GTAW should only be used if al of the galvanized coating has
been removed for at least 75 mm on either side of the area to be welded. The
GTAW process is illustrated in Figure 6.
If the zinc layer cannot be removed prior to welding the GTAW electrode will be
contaminated by the zinc and result in erratic arc behaviour and poor weld
quality. Electrode contamination can be reduced by :
• Using a torch angle of 70° instead of the normal 80° angle.
• Increase the gas flow rate from approximately 7 l/min to 12 l/min.
These changes have the effect of flushing the zinc vapour from the arc area.

[cj737]

Based upon what your setup is, I would use a #7 or #8 cup with a gas lens (if you're not) and be dead certain that you're only using a max of 120 amps at full pedal. A nice tight arc on clean metal and it is just like welding flat.

When you do weld overhead, and you might be laying multiple passes, you have to pay attention to interpass temps. If the first pass is still smoldering hot, then the subsequent fill pass will droop because as you weld, you are reheating the base pass plus the fill pass. Then gravity is your enemy.

You can practice/test this on a flat plate with a root pass, then position it overhead and run a fill pass. You'll notice the "droop" immediately.

Of course if you aren't cleaning to bare metal, TIG won't work. Since you indicated flat is not a problem for you, I assume you are also being diligent overhead. Goes without saying...

[Kfactor239]

Now that I know what I'm up against I kind of understand my problem. It's not welding overhead at all it's this metal. After reading about welding electro galvanized metal I did what was suggested I cleaned everything front and back to bare metal and beyond at least 3 inches back. Started today with a 7 cup cfh up to 25 and started. The metal just pops and a lot of the time not even near my puddle a good inch or two away. Being that I am trying to weld along a pinch weld of several sheets of sheet metal it's impossible to clean the zinc from between the sheets. Honestly I'm amazed I've done as good as I have. So I'm done trying to tig this and I'm breaking out my cheesy harbor freight flux core welder to finish it up.

[Kfactor239]

I put some pictures attached you can see some of the hole that blew notice they aren't near my weld. And this isn't half of it I've already probably filled 20 or so holes. My original welds were pretty trashy it's about impossible to keep your tungsten clean as the zinc is constantly popping on you.