[blwilliams774]

Hello, I'm an relatively good tig welder. I have been TIG welding for 40+ years on a Lincoln 400 tig/stick machine.
I modify a lot of aluminum radiators adding mounting tabs and such for off road cars and trucks.
I have always tried to stay away from welding near the tanks as I did not want to possibly compromise the core.
I use 4043 rod for these mods.
I'm getting ready to build a custom one off radiator for my drag car.
I have purchased a quality core from an american manufacture and plan on welding the tanks on for my needs.
My question to all. Has anyone done this themselves? If so what rod and procedures were used?
Any need for using some sort of heat fence around the weld areas?
The core was pretty expensive so I would hate to render it useless by using an incorrect rod or procedure.

Thanks in advance

Bruce William

Chandler AZ

[Oscar]

4043 should be fine, unless the manufacturer of the core said otherwise. What did they say when you asked them?

[blwilliams774]

4043 should be fine, unless the manufacturer of the core said otherwise. What did they say when you asked them?

Manufacture said let us build your radiator for you.
I said where is the fun in that??

[Toggatug]

This is actually what I do for a living I build all types of radiator and coolers etc.


So what type of core did you get?

Is it a bar and plate? Or tube and header.

If it's a header type what type of header are you welding to a flat plate or is it a turn up that you can slide the tank into?



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[blwilliams774]

This is actually what I do for a living I build all types of radiator and coolers etc.


So what type of core did you get?

Is it a bar and plate? Or tube and header.

If it's a header type what type of header are you welding to a flat plate or is it a turn up that you can slide the tank into?



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I bought a core from a company in Michigan If I remember correctly.
It is a tube and header. I will be making the tanks out of plate/sheet aluminum which I will break to fit inside the header for welding. I will weld NPT bungs into the header for inlet/outlet.

I have plenty of faith in my welding skills. I'm just a bit over cautious as to how much heat the header can take. Is a heat fence paste good for this operation?

[Toggatug]

Hmm Michigan. I'm not aware of a aluminium core maker in Michigan. (I'm up in Canada) unless it was from TSM which has branches all over the States but makes all the aluminium cores down in Dallas.


And as far as the heat goes there shouldn't be any cause for concern.


I weld tanks directly to the tube when it's a bar and plate style core. Or I weld 1/8 away from the tube to header joint when I'm welding to a 3/8 plate header.(Will get some pics up as soon as my phone cooperates and lets me log in)


For the tanks if you don't have the means to bead them then I'm going to recommend they be at least 3/16" thick to resist balooning. (Can't tell you how many cheap eBay rads come into my shop and won't even take more than 5psi before the tank starts to swell and then the core along with it)

Usual material I make tanks from is 3003 when it's press braked otherwise you run a high chance of having stress fractures in the bend.

Also If your not concerned about weight I'd look into some extruded channel from CGJ (the absolute most rugged way to make a tank which are capable of 300psi working pressure)


And as another little side note you may find you need more amps than usual to do the header joint since the core is actively pulling your heat away and it's designed to get rid of heat. Least that's the way it seems to me.


Don't hesitate to ask me a hundred questions I'd be happy to help since I've been helped so much on this forum I gotta pay it back where I can.



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[blwilliams774]

Took a while but I found the receipt for the core.
Wizard cooling in New York.
That's kinda close to Michigan.

[Toggatug]

Took a while but I found the receipt for the core.
Wizard cooling in New York.
That's kinda close to Michigan.

I poked around their site a bit on lunch at work . It doesn't state if they make the core in house or if they have a 3rd party make it for them. But it does say 100% US built so it's probably a decent core, good thing it's not a offshore core cause so many of those I see can't even take the pressure of a cooking system.


If you can could you put up a picture of the core? I'd like to see if it has relief cuts in the side rail (will greatly increase the lifespan of the core) and if any reinforcements were put in the tubes on the corners in the water side of the core(gives an idea of core quality level)

Would also let me see the headers and give advice of how to go about prepping it for welding. (Braze residue can be a nightmare to get a pretty speckle free weld especially if it's built up)

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[Toggatug]

And as far as disturbing the braze joint in the header it'sa pretty hard thing to do since youd need to have the tube joint up over 1000F.


I used to have phone with a thermal camera on it and I'd take a pic after welding to see how things were and how the core pulled my heat in different ways. Hottest I can recall seeing the core was around 500F. And that was after welding about a 24" run @ about 250 amps (if memory serves me right...but I don't trust it fully so I'm charging that phone to verify)

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[blwilliams774]

Took a while but I found the receipt for the core.
Wizard cooling in New York.
That's kinda close to Michigan.

I poked around their site a bit on lunch at work . It doesn't state if they make the core in house or if they have a 3rd party make it for them. But it does say 100% US built so it's probably a decent core, good thing it's not a offshore core cause so many of those I see can't even take the pressure of a cooking system.


If you can could you put up a picture of the core? I'd like to see if it has relief cuts in the side rail (will greatly increase the lifespan of the core) and if any reinforcements were put in the tubes on the corners in the water side of the core(gives an idea of core quality level)

Would also let me see the headers and give advice of how to go about prepping it for welding. (Braze residue can be a nightmare to get a pretty speckle free weld especially if it's built up)

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I doubt that it is an offshore core.
I sell import radiators on CL as well as other import items. This 15X15 core is heavier than one of my complete 31X19 import radiators.
I went back to the web sight and it has changed quite a bit from when I bought my core. Used to have a big section on how they went through the process and the equipment required to make the cores. Had a huge listing of all the core sizes. Now they only appear to have the DIY were you can buy a "kit".
The gray paint/flux? on the header, does it have to be ground off?
They header has a dip down and then breaks up for the weld flange.
I don't have any means of posting pics.

[blwilliams774]

Regarding the core.
Being a novice at building a custom radiator my first goal was to find a company that would sell me a core of the dimensions that would work for my needs.
The Wizard CO. was the first to respond back from an email request for product information.
I gave the dimensions of what I wanted and that is what I received.
In retrospect I see that it would have been better if the Wizard CO had a core of the width I needed rather than cutting one from a larger piece.
This is what I have so I'll be moving forward with it soon.
What sort of prep is required to prepaid the header for welding to?

[Toggatug]

That makes perfect sense why one side is different then the other. If you want it to look the same it's quite easy to weld a channel to the side without one.

And I know what you mean by first to respond it's the reason I get slot of jobs for random one of's the big guys don't even reply to that kind of stuff.


And yes weight of a core is usually a good indicator of the quality. Calipers measuring the various components is a sure fire way to see the difference.



And for the flux is doesn't have to be removed completely as you can weld through it so to speak but you will see it in your weld and it doesn't really brush off.

Best bet would be to light up the braze residue and see how it reacts in the weld pool. The stuff on my cores I use seems to float on top of the puddle.

To remove it I use a 6" aluminium saw blade to remove the bulk then follow up with a 24 grit aluminium flap wheel from Walter abrasives. And of the unit isn't being painted I finish off with a blue sponge type abrasive from Norton. To smooth out all the sanding marks.



You could just use a flap wheel for the whole process but it's much slower.



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[blwilliams774]

What are you talking about when you say 6" aluminum saw blade?

[Toggatug]

What are you talking about when you say 6" aluminum saw blade?

I mean a tungsten teeth saw blade designed for aluminium. I believe I've attached a pic of it.

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[blwilliams774]

What are you talking about when you say 6" aluminum saw blade?

I mean a tungsten teeth saw blade designed for aluminium. I believe I've attached a pic of it.

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I probably should not be allowed to use something like that as I would probable loose a body part from it!
I think I will stick with the flapper wheel.

[Toggatug]

Ahahaha don't blame you one bit, I'm the only guy at our shop crazy enough to run the tool.

It's quite the tool to have in your hands knowing damn well of she bites bad things are going to go down real quick.


The big keys are 1)ABC (always be climbing) so if it does kick it kicks away.

2) if your side grinding you apply ZERO pressure to avoid catching/kicking.


I've been running this setup for about 2 years and only had one kick back due to my own foolishness. Luckily it kicked away from me.


And funny enough the company that got us started in the aluminium records uses a regular old woodsaw with the guard removed. I tried it once and said never again because of how prone that setup was to kickback and how awkward it was to hold.

I much prefer my 4 1/2"grinder with custom guard and handle.

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