I'm currently learning TIG for boat projects, hobby use, mainly AL and SS job, on tubes or thin stuff.
So I'm looking to get my own gear and I would like the machine to be very compact, as I don't have a dedicated workshop (and must fit in the boat).
My budget is quite tight, it would be an machine for Middle East or Asia, but the choice of the machine is pretty hard, as they are many options, the one I found to be:
mandatory:
- HF start
- integrated automatic gas valve and 2T/4T
- AC/DC setting for aluminium or SS
- compact and lightweight
optional:
- duty cycle, torch cooling: doesn't matter as it's hobby use
- rating: 120/180Amps will do for thin stuff
And few options are left, I hoped you could help me choosing:
what about:
- dual voltage 110/220VAC (as I'm changing continents)
- pedal power control VS simple switch on torch (on/off)
I'm very keen to hear arguments about the last one, especially for onsite jobs.
Thanks for your experienced hints.
sounds like your after a basic ac/dc tig.
for SS you can go low powered but for aluminum you need all the amps you can get.
a limiting factor will be what power supply you can plug into.
for aluminum a pedal is a must. tho a torch button is useful, however what style will depend on how you like to hold the torch. i tend to hold like a pencil and find buttons get in the way.
if your going to do stainless your going to need to look at doing purge gas setups or other back side shielding methods.
plus the array of cups/lens etc and material prep gear. something to watch if your limited on space.
for SS you can go low powered but for aluminum you need all the amps you can get.
a limiting factor will be what power supply you can plug into.
for aluminum a pedal is a must. tho a torch button is useful, however what style will depend on how you like to hold the torch. i tend to hold like a pencil and find buttons get in the way.
if your going to do stainless your going to need to look at doing purge gas setups or other back side shielding methods.
plus the array of cups/lens etc and material prep gear. something to watch if your limited on space.
tweak it until it breaks
If you plan to buy it here (US) and use it there (EMEA) then you'd better focus on power supply options. You also had better consider in some places, 3 Phase might be your only reasonably available option. So do the research on power at your destinations before you choose a machine.
If it were me, I'd buy a Dynasty 210DX. Variable power options, frequency control, pulse control, waveform options for aluminum, and it is about 40# making it reasonably portable. Will run you about $3,000. Not cheap, but ticks all the boxes you mentioned plus a few you didn't.
The HTP TIG boxes are also very nice, but I don't know their power supply options for range of compatibility.
If it were me, I'd buy a Dynasty 210DX. Variable power options, frequency control, pulse control, waveform options for aluminum, and it is about 40# making it reasonably portable. Will run you about $3,000. Not cheap, but ticks all the boxes you mentioned plus a few you didn't.
The HTP TIG boxes are also very nice, but I don't know their power supply options for range of compatibility.
The HTP Invertig 221 exists in a "base" model that is 230V, 1-Φ power (± 15%), or the Dual-Voltage model which works on 115V/230V 1-Φ, with PFC, so it draws less amperage than the 230V-only model. No 3-Φ power capability.
I'd work on your budget a little and see if you can't improve it a bit. One of the most common problems you're going to run into when building boats is that you will have uphill corner welding in confined spaces. A foot pedal just won't be an option when you're inside the boat on your knees or laying down to get into position.
To overcome that you need a welder that can give you pre-flow and post-flow of your shielding gas so that you can use a simple on/off switch on your torch. Those are the best kind because they are the easiest to master. I actually like a torch with a gas valve because I can make sure I've purged the torch and hose before I start and I can hold the gas on until I'm sure the end puddle is cooled.
As for air cooled vs. water cooled torches, you're going to want to stick with an air cooled torch to maintain your portability. One of the biggest problems when building boats is aluminum warp due to heat. You overcome that by strategically planning your welds so you can keep them short. Weld one area then move to a distant area and weld that that will keep warping to a minimum and allow your torch to cool. The whole boat will be acting as a heat sink. Stitch weld when you can and that will help too.
To overcome that you need a welder that can give you pre-flow and post-flow of your shielding gas so that you can use a simple on/off switch on your torch. Those are the best kind because they are the easiest to master. I actually like a torch with a gas valve because I can make sure I've purged the torch and hose before I start and I can hold the gas on until I'm sure the end puddle is cooled.
As for air cooled vs. water cooled torches, you're going to want to stick with an air cooled torch to maintain your portability. One of the biggest problems when building boats is aluminum warp due to heat. You overcome that by strategically planning your welds so you can keep them short. Weld one area then move to a distant area and weld that that will keep warping to a minimum and allow your torch to cool. The whole boat will be acting as a heat sink. Stitch weld when you can and that will help too.
Highly skilled at turning expensive pieces of metal into useless but recyclable crap..
Thanks to you all for the hints.
I'll prefer portability over flexibility with a torch switch, with a small one of 200 amps.
As I've never welded aluminium, I dont know how much it needs oomphs to get a sharp puddle.
As said, my budget is definitely limited and not up to the big US brands (I'm in Europe anyway).
I'll keep you sorted once I got my hand on the (perfect) machine.
I'll prefer portability over flexibility with a torch switch, with a small one of 200 amps.
As I've never welded aluminium, I dont know how much it needs oomphs to get a sharp puddle.
As said, my budget is definitely limited and not up to the big US brands (I'm in Europe anyway).
I'll keep you sorted once I got my hand on the (perfect) machine.
I have a dynasty 210dx that I bought for 5200$ with a wireless foot pedal included. I could have bought a 280dx for about the same price but I was thinking about making repairs at the track with 110v power. Bottom line is I should have bought the 280dx, because I still haven't used it with 110 power.
Miller Dynasty 210dx
instagram: rsengineeringllc
instagram: rsengineeringllc
Thanks for all your feedback.
I finally got my machine, a AC/DC 200A, a cheap Chinese import, 110/230V, 450€.
As my project is on boat related, I got a small disposable bottle, it only lasts 40min but, it's ok.
Picture of the bench at home, the machine is fairly compact
Also a picture my very first aluminium weld with 1.6mm lanthaned electrode at 100A AC 30% offset, with pulsing on the trigger.
I need to work on the pitting between pulses, is low side of the current ramp too low?
Overall I'm ok so far with my setup as it cost me 600€ including bottle, regulator, gloves and consumables (I never tig before).
I will update with my first project to come: a small aluminium railing.
I finally got my machine, a AC/DC 200A, a cheap Chinese import, 110/230V, 450€.
As my project is on boat related, I got a small disposable bottle, it only lasts 40min but, it's ok.
Picture of the bench at home, the machine is fairly compact
Also a picture my very first aluminium weld with 1.6mm lanthaned electrode at 100A AC 30% offset, with pulsing on the trigger.
I need to work on the pitting between pulses, is low side of the current ramp too low?
Overall I'm ok so far with my setup as it cost me 600€ including bottle, regulator, gloves and consumables (I never tig before).
I will update with my first project to come: a small aluminium railing.
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- Radishfever
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Tweepy,
That looks very good for you first weld. Just starting tig here also and can relate.
Went with budget machine also and very happy. When you find the limits of that machine you will know exactly what you want in the next one.
Kirk
That looks very good for you first weld. Just starting tig here also and can relate.
Went with budget machine also and very happy. When you find the limits of that machine you will know exactly what you want in the next one.
Kirk
Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
Does that machine have Pulse TIG? If so, you can probably dial in some settings to give yourself an even better chance at more even welds.
If you use a torch switch, and are trying to "bump" weld (one arc, one dab, quit, repeat) then you can achieve that also with Pulse. Filler is added under the pulse, arc off, move, arc on-fill, move, repeat. You can do this without pulse using a torch switch, but set up the switch for momentary (2T) not 4T.
If you use a torch switch, and are trying to "bump" weld (one arc, one dab, quit, repeat) then you can achieve that also with Pulse. Filler is added under the pulse, arc off, move, arc on-fill, move, repeat. You can do this without pulse using a torch switch, but set up the switch for momentary (2T) not 4T.
Pulse TIG and 2T/4T:cj737 wrote:Does that machine have Pulse TIG? If so, you can probably dial in some settings to give yourself an even better chance at more even welds.
If you use a torch switch, and are trying to "bump" weld (one arc, one dab, quit, repeat) then you can achieve that also with Pulse. Filler is added under the pulse, arc off, move, arc on-fill, move, repeat. You can do this without pulse using a torch switch, but set up the switch for momentary (2T) not 4T.
The machine as multiple settings, and I'm not sure how to set them correctly (it didn't come with a manual) :
- machine front.jpg (35.41 KiB) Viewed 2145 times
(depending of the welding mode, some obvious parameters cannot be accessed such as offset and frequency with DC TIG)
And what are the 2 + 3 current modes on the right?
Last edited by Tweepy on Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
on the right i suspect top row is DC options (normal, pulse) and the bottom row is AC options (pulse, normal, super pulse).Tweepy wrote:
Pulse TIG and 2T/4T:
The machine as multiple settings, and I'm not sure how to set them correctly (it didn't come with a manual) : I'm not sure about the welding mode (5 modes on the right), can anyone figure it out?
(depending of the welding mode, some obvious parameters cannot be accessed such as offset and frequency with DC TIG)
And what are the 2 + 3 modes on the right?
on the left is 2T, 4T, AC, DC tig, stick.
tweak it until it breaks
On the right hand side, I think the lower 3 are AC, DC and Mixed Mode.
Could the upper 2 be for Stick, and the lower 3 for Tig? Not sure why you would want AC for stick, except maybe Arc Blow.
Could the upper 2 be for Stick, and the lower 3 for Tig? Not sure why you would want AC for stick, except maybe Arc Blow.
No sense dying with unused welding rod, so light 'em up!
Yep.VA-Sawyer wrote:I think the 5 selections on the left are...
2 T
4 T
Pulse
Spot
Stick
Just my guess.
Use the arrow associated with this group, and press the button until the light is on next tot he top (2T).
The top center section should be set to HF for High Frequency start, not LIFT arc.
All the configurations in the center bottom are for Preflow of gas, initial arc start amperage, upslope in seconds, Main amperage, background amperage, then all the pulse variables, then downslope, etc. This entire section allows you to set PULSE variables. If you watch some of Jody’s videos on YouTube, he sets up some of his machines and walks through what these are, and how to determine these parameters. I think Everlast makes a welder that uses an almost exact interface so you could probably look at one of their manuals to get more insight.
A few more guesses...
AF AC frequency. When this LED is lit, I would expect the Hz LED on the main display to be lit.
CLN is Cleaning. When that LED is lit, I would expect the % LED on the main display to be lit.
BC is background current. Not sure if that will be set in amps or percent. I would expect percent.
PC is pulse current. Probably set in Amps.
PF is pulse frequency . Probably set in Hz.
PW is pulse width. Used with spot mode, and set in seconds.
AF AC frequency. When this LED is lit, I would expect the Hz LED on the main display to be lit.
CLN is Cleaning. When that LED is lit, I would expect the % LED on the main display to be lit.
BC is background current. Not sure if that will be set in amps or percent. I would expect percent.
PC is pulse current. Probably set in Amps.
PF is pulse frequency . Probably set in Hz.
PW is pulse width. Used with spot mode, and set in seconds.
No sense dying with unused welding rod, so light 'em up!
Tweepy,
What brand is the welder? Can it use a foot pedal, or torch amp control?
You said one of your settings was "30% offset", is that what we call "AC balance", or sometimes "percent cleaning"?
Looks like you got a lot of features for the money.
What brand is the welder? Can it use a foot pedal, or torch amp control?
You said one of your settings was "30% offset", is that what we call "AC balance", or sometimes "percent cleaning"?
Looks like you got a lot of features for the money.
No sense dying with unused welding rod, so light 'em up!
Hi VA-Sawyer
Offset: yes, that's what you call cleaning, sorry, it's more an electronic term. EP electrode positive time or ratio I think is more the term used in the welding business.
Look like you nailed it, I think everything is here.
While I understand 2T and 4T settings, I don't understand the 3rd setting (wave icon), as it look like spot/pulse setting, as it starts but there is no way to stop the arc: setting it to the minimum lowers it to 5A, but no way to shut it down nicely.
The machine brand is TUMAS, as Chinese brand, import direct thus the price. As explained, I want very high portability for my boat project and they make very compact inverter (and very affordable and feature-full).
Offset: yes, that's what you call cleaning, sorry, it's more an electronic term. EP electrode positive time or ratio I think is more the term used in the welding business.
Look like you nailed it, I think everything is here.
While I understand 2T and 4T settings, I don't understand the 3rd setting (wave icon), as it look like spot/pulse setting, as it starts but there is no way to stop the arc: setting it to the minimum lowers it to 5A, but no way to shut it down nicely.
The machine brand is TUMAS, as Chinese brand, import direct thus the price. As explained, I want very high portability for my boat project and they make very compact inverter (and very affordable and feature-full).
the wave icon under the 4t is probably pulse weld or possible stitch weld. check if one of the options is a time. with stitch you can set a run time (i think, i'm rusty on this) and you simply run the torch along at a set speed (especially with a mech track) and the welder turns on, weld a certain length, turns off for a while, then turns back on for the next stitch.
that might explain it not turning off as you need to set how long it runs for.
not a feature i would expect on a cheap machine.
i think the one under that might actually be spot weld.
that might explain it not turning off as you need to set how long it runs for.
not a feature i would expect on a cheap machine.
i think the one under that might actually be spot weld.
tweak it until it breaks
Tweepy,
You didn't say if it has a foot pedal, or hand amp control, or is torch switch only.
I will assume for the moment that it is torch switch only. I will also assume that the third choice on the left is for pulse setup. Pulse is a welding mode where the welder cycles between two different Amp settings, at a preselected rate. As long as the trigger is pulled, it will keep cycling.
This is all guessing...
To set up pulse, select it on the left side. On the lower screen, select PC and set the pulse current in Amps, try 100. Select BC, and set the background current in Percent, let's go with 30%. Select PF and set the pulse rate in Hz. Let's try 0.5 Hz. This should set up a program that welds at 100 Amps for 1 second, then drops to 30 Amps for 1 second, then goes back up to 100 Amps. It keeps cycling till you stop the welder.
Try this, and let me know if my guessing is close.
You didn't say if it has a foot pedal, or hand amp control, or is torch switch only.
I will assume for the moment that it is torch switch only. I will also assume that the third choice on the left is for pulse setup. Pulse is a welding mode where the welder cycles between two different Amp settings, at a preselected rate. As long as the trigger is pulled, it will keep cycling.
This is all guessing...
To set up pulse, select it on the left side. On the lower screen, select PC and set the pulse current in Amps, try 100. Select BC, and set the background current in Percent, let's go with 30%. Select PF and set the pulse rate in Hz. Let's try 0.5 Hz. This should set up a program that welds at 100 Amps for 1 second, then drops to 30 Amps for 1 second, then goes back up to 100 Amps. It keeps cycling till you stop the welder.
Try this, and let me know if my guessing is close.
No sense dying with unused welding rod, so light 'em up!
If you are looking for the welder to automatically stop the weld, that would be Spot mode. The 4th choice down on the left side.
Select Spot mode, and in the lower section select PW to set the Weld time in Seconds. Try .4 seconds.
Set your weld current to about double the Amps you would set for normally welding the joint. If you would normally use 60 amps for welding, set 100-120 amps for the spot weld. As the torch isn't traveling during the weld, I prefer to set the edge of the cup on the metal with a slight tilt to keep the Tungsten at the correct gap. Pull the trigger, and the welder will do a .4 sec weld, and then stop. If you release the trigger early, it still welds for the .4 seconds, before it stops. Keep that in mind when using longer time settings. You don't want the welder going for 2 seconds of uncontrolled weld, if the torch slips out of place.
This mode is very handy for doing tacks on thinner stuff. Jody calls them 'Flash Tacks '.
Select Spot mode, and in the lower section select PW to set the Weld time in Seconds. Try .4 seconds.
Set your weld current to about double the Amps you would set for normally welding the joint. If you would normally use 60 amps for welding, set 100-120 amps for the spot weld. As the torch isn't traveling during the weld, I prefer to set the edge of the cup on the metal with a slight tilt to keep the Tungsten at the correct gap. Pull the trigger, and the welder will do a .4 sec weld, and then stop. If you release the trigger early, it still welds for the .4 seconds, before it stops. Keep that in mind when using longer time settings. You don't want the welder going for 2 seconds of uncontrolled weld, if the torch slips out of place.
This mode is very handy for doing tacks on thinner stuff. Jody calls them 'Flash Tacks '.
No sense dying with unused welding rod, so light 'em up!
Thanks for the explanations!
Been playing with the different modes, and so far I prefer 4T with different ramps, this way I can modulate the power on the torch switch.
Everything is fine on SS, but unfortunately I'm struggling with a big issue with AL: I get contamination on the bead as soon as I add filler.
I don't know what changed, either bottle or filler but as soon as I approach the filler rod, it turns black, drop as a black stuff and make a mess.
I clean the part with SS brush and scratch padded (filler too), then acetone everything. Checked for leaks, changed electrode, change flow rate, collet.
Here are the settings for 2mm thick AL:
AC, 100Hz
30% clean
60/90Amps
1.6mm electrode 2% lanthanated
filler AlMg5
pure argon, 15CFH/7LPM
Collet #7 pyrex, gas lens
What am I missing? Why do I get this black smear? (kind of desperate, would love your hints...)
Been playing with the different modes, and so far I prefer 4T with different ramps, this way I can modulate the power on the torch switch.
Everything is fine on SS, but unfortunately I'm struggling with a big issue with AL: I get contamination on the bead as soon as I add filler.
I don't know what changed, either bottle or filler but as soon as I approach the filler rod, it turns black, drop as a black stuff and make a mess.
I clean the part with SS brush and scratch padded (filler too), then acetone everything. Checked for leaks, changed electrode, change flow rate, collet.
Here are the settings for 2mm thick AL:
AC, 100Hz
30% clean
60/90Amps
1.6mm electrode 2% lanthanated
filler AlMg5
pure argon, 15CFH/7LPM
Collet #7 pyrex, gas lens
What am I missing? Why do I get this black smear? (kind of desperate, would love your hints...)
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It looks to me like you need more amps. You might want to increase cleaning to 35% as well. I'm not familiar with that filler rod, you may have better luck with 4943 if you can get some.
No sense dying with unused welding rod, so light 'em up!
first thing that comes to mind is lack of amps. you should be getting a shiny puddle in a few seconds.Tweepy wrote:Thanks for the explanations!
Been playing with the different modes, and so far I prefer 4T with different ramps, this way I can modulate the power on the torch switch.
Everything is fine on SS, but unfortunately I'm struggling with a big issue with AL: I get contamination on the bead as soon as I add filler.
I don't know what changed, either bottle or filler but as soon as I approach the filler rod, it turns black, drop as a black stuff and make a mess.
I clean the part with SS brush and scratch padded (filler too), then acetone everything. Checked for leaks, changed electrode, change flow rate, collet.
Here are the settings for 2mm thick AL:
AC, 100Hz
30% clean
60/90Amps
1.6mm electrode 2% lanthanated
filler AlMg5
pure argon, 15CFH/7LPM
Collet #7 pyrex, gas lens
What am I missing? Why do I get this black smear? (kind of desperate, would love your hints...)
that also means really need 2.4mm tungsten.
whats the tungsten looking like? severally balled up? i don't see cleaning lines in the pics so i wonder if you need to set it to 70% (some machines have cleaning settings opposite).
i assume filler rod is 5356, what diameter is it?
other things can be to much torch angle.
do some runs with no filler.
also what aluminium is it?
not all grades are weldable and you have to watch for contamination, especially if its been in some cutting solutions or oil.
tweak it until it breaks
Thanks tweake & VA-Sawyer
- the cleaning (DC offset) can be set from 0 to 50% on this machine, I tried from 25 to 35%
- changed the electrode for a 2.4mm @ 140A, with a #10 collet, tip does ball, but not much
- the coupon are scrap from the shop down the street, brand new, they solder it daily, but no idea what is it.
- filler is 2mm AlMg5, that's what the same shop recommended
- torch angle regular 45/50°
The puddle is shiny in few second, but there is always a black smear on the middle, not going on the sides, even without filler.
- the cleaning (DC offset) can be set from 0 to 50% on this machine, I tried from 25 to 35%
- changed the electrode for a 2.4mm @ 140A, with a #10 collet, tip does ball, but not much
- the coupon are scrap from the shop down the street, brand new, they solder it daily, but no idea what is it.
- filler is 2mm AlMg5, that's what the same shop recommended
- torch angle regular 45/50°
The puddle is shiny in few second, but there is always a black smear on the middle, not going on the sides, even without filler.
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- tig_al_smear.gif (17.5 MiB) Viewed 1786 times