[TraditionalToolworks]

I just got approval from the County, where I am building a shop/home to retire to. I was approved for 320 amps. Only single phase, but enough to comfortably have half of that dedicated to the shop.

In the past when I look at older large transformer boxes, they require like 100 amps on 240v to run.

When you have a box like that, do people typically wire the transformer directly to a disconnect and into the panel on a breaker?

You can't power those old big transformers on a 50amp welding circuit, can you?

Most of the 300amp-400amp tig boxes need approx. 90-100 amps. As an example a Linde 305C recently sold at auction with huge mobile cart and gigantic foot pedal system. It was a 400 amp machine and required 100 amps at 230v. Many of the Lincoln boxes recommend 125amp circuits to power them.

I want to have a circuit that I could do that on in my new shop, but pondering how to set it up.

I saw the machine after the fact and didn't bid on it...boy was I glad, that was a big puppy...on the mobile cart it was like 4'x4'x4'

I know I could have got it cheap...

Cheers,
Alan

[cj737]

If it requires 100 amps at 240v, you sure can’t run it on 50 amp breaker. It will trip every time you strike an arc. Running a correctly sized circuit and wiring from the panel to an outlet is fine. As long as it’s rated for the load.

[TraditionalToolworks]

[DUPE REMOVED]

[TraditionalToolworks]

If it requires 100 amps at 240v, you sure can’t run it on 50 amp breaker. It will trip every time you strike an arc. Running a correctly sized circuit and wiring from the panel to an outlet is fine. As long as it’s rated for the load.

That is what I thought, but some of the sellers have been telling me that some of these units have 50 amp welding plugs on them and that you can use them up to a reasonable amount without tripping the breaker.

Now that I will have power and will have more shop space, if I find one of those big 'ol transformers falling off a turnip truck, I'll try to catch it. Otherwise a Dynasty or HTP would make sense. I know of a Synchrowave 250 coming up at a local auction, but those get bid up pretty high normally.

Compared to the Linde 305C those Syncrowave 250s are like having a portable...not that they are light...anything with a lifting eye is gonna be heavy...

[Mike Westbrook]

Most big ole tranny machines list the inrush amperage my old ltec (linde) calls for 90 amps I run it on a 50 with a short run of # 8 wire I placed an amp clamp around the cable and maxed short circuit with a 5/32 rod it drew 85 amps for less than a second and dropped to around 35 amps not nearly enough to trip the breaker inrush and running amperage are different ratings a transformer takes alot to get going but for a split second then it will only use what's needed to keep the rod lit and most times you will never be near the max for these machines who needs 250-300 amps that often even 5/32 rods only use about 160 and that's pretty decent

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[MinnesotaDave]

I've found that for most welds my big machines can live on a 70 amp breaker.

But when really pushing on aluminum I've tripped that, so I generally run them on a 100 amp breaker now.

I've hooked them both ways, 50 amp plug, or wired direct to my panel with the breaker as the disconnect.

I've not had any plug overheating issues when wired that way. One of my friends is an industrial repair tech and he said the plug would not overheat, he was correct.

[TraditionalToolworks]

[DUPE REMOVED]

Not sure what is happening, but if I edit a post I sometimes get a PHP error and it double posts.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Most big ole tranny machines list the inrush amperage my old ltec (linde) calls for 90 amps I run it on a 50 with a short run of # 8 wire I placed an amp clamp around the cable and maxed short circuit with a 5/32 rod it drew 85 amps for less than a second and dropped to around 35 amps not nearly enough to trip the breaker inrush and running amperage are different ratings a transformer takes alot to get going but for a split second then it will only use what's needed to keep the rod lit and most times you will never be near the max for these machines who needs 250-300 amps that often even 5/32 rods only use about 160 and that's pretty decent

Mike,

This is exactly as I've been told by more than one person selling a large old transformer machine. It is actually why I posted this thread, to ask about this specific. Thank you for confirming. I have always felt as cj mentioned, the welder needs to be on the proper circuit.

I've found that for most welds my big machines can live on a 70 amp breaker.

But when really pushing on aluminum I've tripped that, so I generally run them on a 100 amp breaker now.

I've hooked them both ways, 50 amp plug, or wired direct to my panel with the breaker as the disconnect.

I've not had any plug overheating issues when wired that way. One of my friends is an industrial repair tech and he said the plug would not overheat, he was correct.

Dave,

The reason I was asking about this, is that I currently only have a 30 amp circuit for my home shop, it just has enough power to run my 7-1/2HP RPC when 3 phase is needed, and can run my DC tig inverter as well on the same plug I use for the RPC (30 amp 240v).

Each time I get a machine, I buy some 10 gauge 3/4-wire and a plug and wire it up so the unit can either plug into my 240v single phase (L6) or a 240v three phase (L15).

With these larger transformer machines the amps are all over the map, some need 60, others need 90, some need up to 125 amps...in theory I could just setup a 125 amp circuit and wire the machines with 125 amp wire/plug, but that requires 2 AWG which is pretty pricey just for the wire itself. This is causing me to rethink my setup on the new shop and I know that I don't move my machines too often. Certainly a large 4'x4'x4' transformer box is not going to be moved too much if I was to get something like that...talking about 400-500 amp transformer style welders. For reference a guy told me he runs a Lincoln R3R-500 on a 50amp welding circuit. This is a machine that requires a 125amp circuit per the manual.

I guess the answer is that it will in fact work for limited welding, and that would probably be fine for my needs, but I would want it on the proper wire and/or breaker if it's in my shop. I think moving over to direct wiring with no plugs will save me some money. OTOH, most of my machines have plugs on them now, a few don't as they were too big to run on my 7-1/2HP RPC.

Alan

[Mike Westbrook]

I'm confused so confused you have 3 phase in your shop ? Or you are using some three phase style plug if you have three phase those machines can be found cheap and you will cut the amperage by almost 1/3 due to the third leg


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[Mike Westbrook]

Ok sorry you have a phase converter good for motors not for welders [emoji16]

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[TraditionalToolworks]

Ok sorry you have a phase converter good for motors not for welders [emoji16]

Exactly.

However, I ONLY have 30 amps of single phase 240v. It's the previous dryer breaker. That has just enough amps to run my 200amp DC inverter, which I think draws about 28 amps. I only have 125 amps for the entire house, so can't cut down too much.

The new shop/home I'm building will have the 320 amp (single phase) service. So I figure I could easily plug in a 125 amp machine and not worry about blowing any breaker. I honestly don't have anything that draws that much power in my entire shop, and that includes a lot of 3 phase machines. With more power, all of the sudden those big transformer boxes start getting a bit more attractive...

This was the machine, it sold for almost nothing.

I won a South Bend Heavy 10 lathe and when I went to pick it up I was pretty surprised how big this was in person. At the time glad I didn't bid on it.

Honestly a Dynasty or HTP would probably be a wiser solution, no matter how you slice or dice it, but economically one of these old gals might not be a bad option. As I said, it was never an option for me.

(requires 94 amps)

Linde 305c welder

linde-305c.jpg (67.47 KiB) Viewed 2204 times

[weldin mike 27]

There's a black and white photo of an old linde welder like that in the old welding book I read cover to cover back in my younger days. It's like a print version of welding tips and tricks.

[TraditionalToolworks]

There's a black and white photo of an old linde welder like that in the old welding book I read cover to cover back in my younger days. It's like a print version of welding tips and tricks.

Mike,

Do you know what those meters are for on top of the welder?

I know these old welders are not a "full featured", but would be a great tig welder that could do anything. I actually kind of like using my pedal for pulsing, which is suited to these older beasts.

Some of the Heliarcs appear slightly smaller, but I've seen a 400 amp version on craigslist in my area. Quite a few Lincoln TIG 300 boxes, those seem popular...a bit smaller and 300 amps. There's a Lincoln R3R-500 that been on/off...that guy told me he has a 50 amp welding plug and can weld up to about 175 amps. It requires a 125 amp service in the manual. That's what my entire HOUSE and shop use where I live...

I'd love to have funds to get a Dynasty, heck I'd even settle for an HTP. The downside to that is the cost. I am very limited in that regard and I suspect I won't be finding any Dynastys falling off a turnip truck...

The idea of snagging a big old behemoth at auction cheap and have a 400 amp welder is a staggering thought. Sure, not a Dynasty 400, but a very capable welder. But in the real world out in the wild that is likely these days...irony being it would probably from someone who bought a Dynasty...

Alan

[weldin mike 27]

They say AC amps and volts, and Dc amps and volts. I don't know why you would need a different gauges to measure those. Maybe it was an early marketeering sham. Heres a picture from the book

[MinnesotaDave]

They say AC amps and volts, and Dc amps and volts. I don't know why you would need a different gauges to measure those. Maybe it was an early marketeering sham. Heres a picture from the book

I don't see how an AC gauge would measure DC?

On my multimeter I have to switch settings to read one or the other.

Have to switch for volts or amps.

[weldin mike 27]

I just thought the guage would measure what ever was flowing. I'm not up with that stuff. But I'm also a dc only tig and a mig man

[TraditionalToolworks]

They say AC amps and volts, and Dc amps and volts. I don't know why you would need a different gauges to measure those. Maybe it was an early marketeering sham. Heres a picture from the book

Mike,

That's amazing, that's it pretty much in it's entirety. That cart was slightly different but those probably changed over time, but the meters and the foot pedal all look like a package.

I bet that was one expensive welder in it's day. If it lived in the same lab that my South Bend lathe lived in, it probably wasn't used very much at all. Actually pretty rare to see such an old welder that looks so original, IMO. There's a lot of fugly welders out in the wild...

Alan

[weldin mike 27]

I'll bet many of these old girls went to scrap long before their time was up. Out paced by technology.

[cj737]

Some of the Heliarcs appear slightly smaller, but I've seen a 400 amp version on craigslist in my area. Quite a few Lincoln TIG 300 boxes, those seem popular...a bit smaller and 300 amps.

The idea of snagging a big old behemoth at auction cheap and have a 400 amp welder is a staggering thought.

For Pete's Sake, what are you welding at home that requires 400 amps? I've welded 1" thick aluminum with 250 Amps (using helium, bevel and a preheat). If you think buying a 400 amp welding machine is expensive, the cost to run a single phase 400 amp machine will break you financially with the power company. Especially off a transformer box in California

You might look for a Lincoln IdealArc. Quality, transformer-based ship machine, should be plenty out there. You'll need a 60 Amp circuit for the 250 Amp machine. I just sold my old one (had it for about 20 years) for $850 to a local guy last Fall.

[TraditionalToolworks]

For Pete's Sake, what are you welding at home that requires 400 amps?

Honestly I don't need it for most everything I would do. The dilemma is that until you get up to about 350-400 amps, even the big transformers seem to hold their value pretty well. When you get to 400 amps most everyone can't run them in their home shop, so that leaves them for peanuts on the used market. That's the main driving factor.

If you think buying a 400 amp welding machine is expensive, the cost to run a single phase 400 amp machine will break you financially with the power company. Especially off a transformer box in California

I am not sure what it would cost and/or if it would be cost prohibitive.

The Linde just happened to be at a local auction and what got me to think about it. It sold for under $100 with auction fees and tax. I would rather have a Dynasty or HTP, and probably just better to keep using what I have and not worry about aluminum for the time being. Aluminum is the other driving factor, I do use some alu for fabricating for it's weight advantage.

Alan

[hey_allen]

A friend of mine has an old Miller Dialarc that he uses for heavy stick work, as he's never gotten the HF section to work.
That said, he only plugs it in when he needs to do the welding, and quickly disconnects it once he's done, since it sucks down 30A of single phase 220V at idle, and up to 120A at full load.

His little lunch box inverter welder will push nearly 250A and works for all the light fabrication work, and nearly quits drawing power when it's idle...

[TraditionalToolworks]

His little lunch box inverter welder will push nearly 250A and works for all the light fabrication work, and nearly quits drawing power when it's idle...

I keep pondering this over and over and so far I haven't found the right box to pull the trigger on, because an inverter is so much more convenient.

These old machines are my style, I love old machines, but a better inverter is a much better upgrade for me, even though I will have the power. For other various reasons like size, weight, etc...I am going to try and forget about them.

Even the Dynasty 280 DX only draws about 52 amps. I think a 210 DX would do most of what I need, or an HTP 221. For all intents and purpose my china green is getting me along.

There is nothing that I haven't replaced, except the welder itself.

[Brickster68]

I have a Lincoln Square Wave TIG 355 which is a 410-amp machine. Lincoln's recommendation for wiring is #2 wire with a 175-amp fuse. I picked up a Square D 200-amp fused disconnect panel on eBay for around $130 shipped and got some help from my FIL who is a retired industrial electrician in hooking everything up. I'm using 175A fuses of course.
Fortunately I have a 200-amp 3-phase main panel in the shop and I set the one for the welder up as a sub panel. It took a while to get everything just like I wanted it, but now I don't have to worry about tripping a breaker. My machine at idle shows an amp draw of 69 amps due to the power factor capacitors. From what I've been told, the 69A that appears on my ammeter isn't an actual amp draw (although it will trip a 60A breaker after turning the machine on and letting it idle for a minute or so), my FIL called it a "ghost reading" but at any rate the machine is happy and so am I.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I have a Lincoln Square Wave TIG 355 which is a 410-amp machine. Lincoln's recommendation for wiring is #2 wire with a 175-amp fuse. I picked up a Square D 200-amp fused disconnect panel on eBay for around $130 shipped and got some help from my FIL who is a retired industrial electrician in hooking everything up. I'm using 175A fuses of course.
Fortunately I have a 200-amp 3-phase main panel in the shop and I set the one for the welder up as a sub panel. It took a while to get everything just like I wanted it, but now I don't have to worry about tripping a breaker. My machine at idle shows an amp draw of 69 amps due to the power factor capacitors. From what I've been told, the 69A that appears on my ammeter isn't an actual amp draw (although it will trip a 60A breaker after turning the machine on and letting it idle for a minute or so), my FIL called it a "ghost reading" but at any rate the machine is happy and so am I.

Holy crap, 175 amps, I'm gonna go take a cold shower...

That's some serious power...for a 400 amp welder.