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porcupine
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Hi !
I don't know what I'm doing wrong here but according to most calculator I see online the ideal setting for 1/16" (1.5-1.6mm) mild steel is around 50-80amp. I set my welder to 50amp, 1/16" tungsten (2% thoriated) grinder to a point, argon set to around 20Cfh, grinded and cleaned base metal and I blew right thru it and I'm not lingering with my torch. I moved relatively fast.
50amp
50amp
WhatsApp Image 2018-07-26 at 6.27.57 PM.jpeg (100.29 KiB) Viewed 3728 times
2nd attempt, same settings for all except I set to 30amp and I apply filler rod (1/16"), speed is around the same. It's not good by any means but it didn't blow out.
30amp
30amp
WhatsApp Image 2018-07-26 at 6.28.08 PM.jpeg (94.2 KiB) Viewed 3728 times
Can anybody comment by looking at the above shots. Really need help. And I'm not even close to joining two pieces of shit together any time soon yet.
Cheers everyone.
TOPWELL ALUTIG250HD
AC/DC TIG, MIXTIG, MMA
cj737
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From the looks of it, you're arc distance is very long. Notice how wide the HAZ is? Your tungsten should be the same distance to the work as the filler metal is (as a rule of thumb/guide). What cup size are you using? 25CFH is a bit on the high side unless you're running a #12 cup. Probably easy to run closer to 12CFH with a #8 or less. And are you using a gas lens?
porcupine
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I'm using a standard no 8 I think cup (no gas lens) running at 10LPM (20CFH). Tungsten stickout is around 1/4" - 1/2". I tried to keep my arc length the same (tried is the key word here but not easy as I just started doing this in the past week and the torch is a 26 size air cooled monster with a button which I have to hold. I need a smaller torch (17 maybe).
TOPWELL ALUTIG250HD
AC/DC TIG, MIXTIG, MMA
cj737
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With a #8 cup and that much stick out, you really want a gas lens. With that high of a CFH, you are introducing a great deal of turbulence into the shielding gas, which is probably why your HAZ is so bloody hot.

If you only have stock collets, drop to a #5, reduce your stick out and CFH. Try again. You will probably get better results. A #5 cup is about the limit of gas lens/cup size before the turbulence becomes a noticeable factor in my experience.
porcupine
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cj737 wrote:With a #8 cup and that much stick out, you really want a gas lens. With that high of a CFH, you are introducing a great deal of turbulence into the shielding gas, which is probably why your HAZ is so bloody hot.

If you only have stock collets, drop to a #5, reduce your stick out and CFH. Try again. You will probably get better results. A #5 cup is about the limit of gas lens/cup size before the turbulence becomes a noticeable factor in my experience.
hmm, interesting. I did weld the first few times (same setup) with around 5-7LPM (10-14cfh) and my weld looks cleaner actually. I'll have to give it a shot again later. Thanks for the info.
TOPWELL ALUTIG250HD
AC/DC TIG, MIXTIG, MMA
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porcupine wrote: Tungsten stickout is around 1/4" - 1/2". I tried to keep my arc length the same
Are you saying the arc length is the same as your tungsten stickout?
Richard
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porcupine
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LtBadd wrote:
porcupine wrote: Tungsten stickout is around 1/4" - 1/2". I tried to keep my arc length the same
Are you saying the arc length is the same as your tungsten stickout?
Sorry my bad. I meant my arc length was the same as my previous weld (as close as humanly possible for me at least) not 1/4
" which is my tungsten stickout from the cup.
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AC/DC TIG, MIXTIG, MMA
BillE.Dee
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I believe that you stated that you are using a torch button switch. I've found that with the heat that high and using the button switch, I can't control the heat - once it's established. I have also noticed that once I've got the heat running I have to really get moving or I'll blow thru. Maybe turning the heat down a bit will help you out . It might take a second or more to get established but won't overheat the run.
porcupine
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BillE.Dee wrote:I believe that you stated that you are using a torch button switch. I've found that with the heat that high and using the button switch, I can't control the heat - once it's established. I have also noticed that once I've got the heat running I have to really get moving or I'll blow thru. Maybe turning the heat down a bit will help you out . It might take a second or more to get established but won't overheat the run.
At this point, I'm willing to try anything. Something is not right and that something is probably me. I turned the gas down to 10-12cfh, changed the cup to #5, reduce tungsten stickout, reduce amperage. I think you may be right. As I don't have variable control (I use the torch switch), If I use the standard welding calculator amp guide, I'll blow right thru the metal because once it heats up, it continues to heat up even more, and when I lower the amp, it takes too long to get a puddle.I've tried to reduce my arc length and that seems to reduce the HAZ severely (I don't have that black and brown so much anymore) but I've dipped the tungsten too many times doing just that too. Is pulse something to consider?

Or do I have to wait for the moon to be in line with Venus and in tangent with Jupiter for all this to work.

Thanks for you help.
TOPWELL ALUTIG250HD
AC/DC TIG, MIXTIG, MMA
BillE.Dee
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try starting right on the end of the piece. By the time you get heat generated in the middle of the piece, you have to move like you're on fire or stop the arc. Don't start welding yet til you get the feel for the puddle and moving the torch. Stay close to the piece until the puddle forms then lift a tiny bit and push the puddle along. ONce you get that good feeling, try adding filler. Good luck and don't discouraged ... every day is a learning experience. I'm still working on tieing my sneakers...65 years of this shit don't cut it.
cj737
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Let me ask a few questions, forgive me if they seem "pedestrian":

Where are your eyes in relation to the work? I ask this because, even with a torch switch, you should be able to run full amps (less than 60) and weld that tubing without an immediate blow through if your arc length is correct. The moment you see the surface get "wet", dip the filler and travel the necessary distance for the puddle size you need. If you can't see the puddle clearly and unobstructed, you're probably over-heating the metal.

With a 1/16 tungsten and 1/16 filler rod, you should have no problems whatsoever getting a soft arc, enough filler, and moving along. This leads me back to torch position issues...

What angle are you holding the torch to the work? If the torch is laid back too far, you are "casting" the arc and limiting your shielding. This also causes 2 common problems: dipping the tungsten, and too long an arc. The ideal angle is very close to 90* vertically, with perhaps a 5-10* rearward lean. This puts the tungsten in a "push" angle. It also opens the view to your eyes so you can see the tip of the tungsten, the puddle, and where the heck you want to weld.

Very helpful techniques are to comfortably, and fully support your torch hand on a work piece or table or prop. Gently hold the torch so your arm is relaxed, and move your forearm, not your wrist to advance the torch. You want to slide your arm/hand along to maintain the initial position of the torch for as far as is practical. This should also help eliminate the tungsten dipping.

Lastly...

Filler rod techniques. Once you initiate the arc, don't wait too long to add filler. With a torch switch and no variable amperage, light up, and get the rod in there. Let the first "dip" be large to help prevent blow-out and use it to initiate the puddle travel. You are creating a bit of buffer or borrow pile of filler. A fat dab of filler, melt it halfway and advance the torch. The puddle comes with your torch, then drop more filler on the leading edge of the puddle, advance the torch. Rinse and repeat.

Heat soaked material. With thin material (and 1/16th is thin-ish) you can't weld very far unless you are modulating the heat with a pedal or pouring filler in to cool the puddle. The latter of these requires experience, so for now, focus on short runs. Light up, dab, travel and dab only 1-2" and stop. Quench the part. Repeat. If you do not allow that material to cool regularly, it will absorb so much heat that after 3-4" you could probably weld at 25-30 amps maximum. That is hard to do with a torch switch. So you need to learn patience and distance with thin material.

Finally, sitckout length. For now, pull the tungsten closer to the end of the cup. This will help protect the tungsten and let you see/focus only on the puddle. It should be just wide enough as you add filler. You can help yourself by scribing parallel lines on your material to help train you how wide to make you puddle and how much filler/travel distance is needed to get and keep that puddle width. For 1/16th filler, 3/32" is as wide as I'd go for a puddle width. Rule of thumb is 1.5x rod diameter.

If all else fails, take lots more pictures of your torch setup, torch position and distance, and practice results. TIG ain't easy to learn, but it can be learned. Its a trained skill and learning from the internet is harder still ;) But you WILL conquer this with enough practice and patience. :)
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porcupine wrote:
Or do I have to wait for the moon to be in line with Venus and in tangent with Jupiter for all this to work.

Thanks for you help.
No, but Mars is at opposition right now, maybe that's the ticket. ;)
Richard
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LtBadd wrote:
porcupine wrote:
Or do I have to wait for the moon to be in line with Venus and in tangent with Jupiter for all this to work.

Thanks for you help.
No, but Mars is at opposition right now, maybe that's the ticket. ;)
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CJ737
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whenever you see yellow or black discoloration on TIG with mild steel, it is one of three things: 1) you are dipping the tungsten 2) you have bad gas coverage for some reason or 3) wrong polarity. Check that your argon isn't perhaps running low
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