[mark turik]

folks, i was wondering if someone could tell me if this is safe or not. first of all it doesnt make sense to me, but i am not a electrician.

when stick welding is it UNsafe to steady the rod by resting it against my gloved hand. with a good ground when i pull the stick out of the puddle and break the connection through the work, can my arm become a new circuit if it resting on my welding table that is connected to the ground on the work piece?

i saw this as a hint on some video and it just didnt make sense that it would be safe. but i do know holding both the pos and neg terminals of my truck battery IS safe.

thank you everyone!
mark turik,
bailey nc.

[Otto Nobedder]

Hey, Mark,

No worries. The technique is sometimes called "cue-sticking" from shooting pool. The only risk is if your gloves are wet or sweat-soaked, and the rod is also wet. In that case, the shock is annoying at worst.

I used to repair boat docks, and would swim with my welding leads.

As a matter of practice, cue-sticking is a good aid for starting the arc where you want it, but is considered poor practice as a way to continue the weld... Once the arc is established, you should remove the prop hand, or you risk a burn as the rod gets hot, and you should strive to develop the technique to weld without that additional support. Rather, move the prop hand to the torch, and use your elbow as a prop to steady your hands.

Steve S

[weldin mike 27]

Dry skin and dry clothes, no problem. If you are still worried, put an old dry leather glove under your elbow. PS it's all "safe" as in it wont fry you, but open circuit voltage can be high enough to upset your heart rhythm. Especially if you have a problem with your heart, (you may not know) but you will know if you get a boot from the welder, so you can learn not to do it again.

[mark turik]

thank you both, i have thought this through a lot and glad to hear what you say.

about swimming with the welding leads, would that be a problem in salt water? just curious.

thank you again.

great forum, and great attendees.

sincerey,

mark

[Bill Beauregard]

I ALWAYS start a rod with two hands. When I feel the slightest heat through the glove i let go. By then the rod is hot, a bit shorter, and it's less important to steady it. I haven't been zapped this way, but maybe 1000 times I have in other ways. In theory it could be dangerous. In reality gloves, even the resistance of a human body limits the amperage to a safe level. I don't like it, but have never had lasting harm. It ain't nothing compared to HF from a TIG welder or worse still, utility power.

[AKweldshop]

You don't have anything to worry about.
I've been shocked many times welding in the rain, and snow, with my jeans, gloves, or welding jacket fully soaked, and got shocked maybe 40 times, in a 2 hour period.



Like Steve says, the shock will be annoying at most.....

[weldin mike 27]

http://tadsa.org.au/safety-advice/welding Not meaning to scare anyone, but.....

[jwright650]

I have felt a tingle before but it was because it was over 100F in the shop, my clothes were soaked and my belly felt a tingle where I was leaning over the edge of the table (where my work clamp was attached). Wet gloves will also give you this same sensation. Unless you can muster enough conductivity, a tingle will be all that you feel. A dead short is another story...sorry about the pun, but it was intended.

[weldin mike 27]

I picked up the earth once while the machine was on. Lincoln ac buzz box. Like someone grabbed my arm and shook it. Twas angry at myself

[jef1]

Back when I worked for a living I did repair welding on heavy equipment in the mines. One day while repairing a bucket for a CAT 992 loader I got hit pretty bad. Mines are muddy on a dry day most times. In this particular instance it was spring time and it had been raining for about a week. The loader bucket was sitting in the mud. I was standing up to my knees in the mud. I was using a 400 amp miller air pack machine driven welder. At the time I had never been shocked by my welding machine before so I was unaware of the danger. I was working in the rain so my clothes, boots and gloves were completely soaked. I was carbon arcing out a large crack with 1/2" air arc rods and I had my machine cranked to 400 amps. I went to place the air arc rod in the rod holder and I completed the circuit. Direct current locked me up and I was still touching the air arc rod. Luckily when I fell over after a couple of seconds the jolt broke the arc. Severe burn on my left hand and I was shook up pretty bad. I never went to the hospital for it but I am sure that took some minutes of my life span. If you are welding in wet conditions wear a pair of rubber gloves under your welding gloves and you will never get shocked from touching the electrode. If you aren't wet it is not a concern.

Whatever you do stay safe.

[bryanwi]

Worth examining a case where an electrocution actually happened.

Please note the following key phrases as examples of things NOT to DO

"240-volt plug-in cord-connected Hobart welder was in disrepair"

"To allow the welding leads to reach the location of the feed bunker wagon, the victim connected two sets of welding cables and placed the un-insulated cable splices on bare dirt"

http://nasdonline.org/document/1858/d00 ... unker.html

[DennisZ]

Not to hijack this thread but why is it that sometimes I get a "shock" when I change my electrodes? I am not touching the earth clamp/cable or the workpiece it is attached to. I wear rubber safety boots but never wear gloves. Some days I can weld all day without a problem and other days I get "shocked" straight at the first electrode change. Varies from a slight tingle to a pretty good shock. Welder is an old 350 Amp 380 Volt AC machine .

Edit: Happens only when welding outside in front of my shop, never inside. Concrete floor...

[Bill Beauregard]

I would guess your boots are conductive, unless you are kneeling, or sitting on the grounded work piece. Earth is grounded, indirectly everything is one with earth, you touch the stinger or any conductive object touching the stinger, you complete the circuit. Not wearing gloves is not cool.

[Otto Nobedder]

Not to hijack this thread but why is it that sometimes I get a "shock" when I change my electrodes? I am not touching the earth clamp/cable or the workpiece it is attached to. I wear rubber safety boots but never wear gloves. Some days I can weld all day without a problem and other days I get "shocked" straight at the first electrode change. Varies from a slight tingle to a pretty good shock. Welder is an old 350 Amp 380 Volt AC machine .

Edit: Happens only when welding outside in front of my shop, never inside. Concrete floor...

A couple thoughts, Dennis,

Unless those boots are "EH" (electrical hazard) rated, they may not be the insulators you might expect... Particularly if they are natural rubber, which will hold some moisture.

You also mentioned an AC welder, and only happening on earth, not concrete. It's possible that, in addition to having "some" conductance, the boots serve as the insulator in a capacitor with the electrodes being your (to varying degrees) sweaty feet and the (to varying degrees) damp earth.

I only wear EH rated boots when welding, indoors or out, and mine specify the EH rating is void when they are wet.

The moisture content of your welding rod will affect this as well, as bone-dry flux is a poor conductor.

Steve S

[DennisZ]

On dirt or wet ground I can understand. But on concrete floor one would think differently.

Cheap boots might be the problem, thought they would protect more. Not to mention my "sweaty feet"

Moisture in the rods might be another thing.

Something to look at.
Thanks.

[Bill Beauregard]

I'd be very surprised if his bad splices, or bad cord, or mess, or supervision contributed directly to his death. Sweat carries salt. Salt water is a good conductor of electricity. The wagon chassis was connected to the welder's ground lead. He had either sweaty skin, or wet t shirt contact with the wagon chassis. He, with either bare hands, or sweaty gloves touched a rod putting it in the stinger. In doing so, he completed a circuit. Likely the welder produced 80-100 volts, and was set for over 100 amps. The limiting factor would be the electrical resistance in his body. It's a wild guess on my part, but a scenario that could cause death.

[mark turik]

thank everyone for the replies! the comments have really made me laugh although it was a very serious question for me to ask. i dont like to get shocked. and i know what to do with a broken pipe or a severed wire in my truck. electricity when welding has always been mysterious bc you cant see it even when it is there. sort of scary to my mind. so thank everyone again for all of your thoughts on this. maybe it will keep my name out of the back part of the news paper if you know what i mean!
most sincerely,

mark turik

[Bill Beauregard]

A shock to a person involves two points of contact. People can survive enormous levels of voltage when those points don't create a route through the heart. a shock of thousands of volts with available high amperage from elbow to hand might very well burn you. It won't likely kill you. Most commonly weldors get it changing electrodes. We get in the habit of not touching used electrodes, it will burn us. Treat new electrodes the same, you will be largely protected. Those silicone pads cooks use for taking hot pans out of the oven work great to pick up electrodes. If your stinger gets carboned up, clean it with abrasive sand paper. Wear gloves, and non conductive boots. Don't leave any skin exposed. Be conscious of situations where you ground yourself in relation to the welder.

The guy killed welding the wagon was sweaty, his back was touching the frame of the wagon. He must have had the ground lead connected to the frame. Completing the circuit by touching the stinger or electrode limited only by the resistance of the human body, the circuit amperage would be above that required to kill.

[mark turik]

thank you bill, your a great forum mgr! really like visiting here! and,,,,, great advice. i didnt realize that i could get shocked placing a new electrode in the holder. never been shocked like that, but i am way over cautious. its like someone going to the dentist that had a terrifying experience a long time ago. never quiet completely forget.
sinerely,
mark turik

[Bill Beauregard]

I forgot to mention that Open Circuit Voltage is typically in the 70-90 Volt range. Actual welding voltage is usually under 35. There are machines that have limited open circuit voltage greatly reducing hazard. My Dynasty for example gives me a choice. By the way, you won't be severely shocked while there is an arc. The complete circuit passes through the arc instead of through your body.

[weldin mike 27]

Many mines in Australia now specify welding machines with a VRD or voltage reduction device that reduces ocv to a safer level. And the latest development is a stick welder that has a dead man switch on the stinger that you have to hold down to make it weld.