Welding Tips and Tricks

In the most recent videos Jody mentioned some inverters not running 6010. First question is why that would happen? I'd like to understand a little of the science behind it. My second question is if the Dynasty series of machines can run 6010?

I read all the time where people complain about inverters not being able to run 6010. My V350-Pro, Everlast PowerArc 200, and PowerArc 300 will run 6010 every bit as nice as my 1954 SA-200 Short hood. The PowerArc 200 is a strange duck , you have to hold a very close arc length, but it still stacks really nice. My Dynasty 300 will run 6010, but in reality it flat sucks with SMAW!
These were done with the PowerArc 300.

It comes down to the working voltage (as opposed to open circuit voltage) that is required to burn the rod.cellulose rods need more volts to maintain an arc.
The second aspect regards the volt/amp curve of a constant current welder i.e. arc welder.transformer based machines have a drooping curve,that is to say as you tighten arc length the voltage will drop and the amps will rise at a fairly constant rate.
inverters,especially small single phase ones,the volt/amp curve is almost flat.that means that as you close arc length,the amps stay fairly constant up to a point and then the arc will extinguish.an arc force setting on a welder modifies this flattish characteristic to function more like the drooping curve found in transformer based machines.
its the best i can describe it.ill try to find pics of each volt/amp curve

An inverter looks like this
Transformer looks like this copied and pasted so not accurate but you get the idea

holding a long arc with a small inverter and a 6010 means the point on the above graph would lie outside the curve.basically the welder cant supply enough power to maintain an arc
some inverters are designed with a cellulosic characteristic,but normally they arent cheap.most bigger inverters,especially 3 phase ones,dont have the same power problems

Shield Arc wrote:My Dynasty 300 will run 6010, but in reality it flat sucks with SMAW!

You are the first person I've talked to on here that says the Dynasty sucks at stick. I am looking into buying a Dynasty 280DX and will use it a lot for stick as well as TIG (A lot for a non-fabrication company anyways). I would like to hear more on why it sucks at SMAW.

I have posted a bunch about buying a welder and haven't yet because I really want to make sure I get this buy right. I'm not interested in buyers remorse and have the time to really research before I buy.

Thanks!

wheresmejumper wrote:It comes down to the working voltage (as opposed to open circuit voltage) that is required to burn the rod.cellulose rods need more volts to maintain an arc.
The second aspect regards the volt/amp curve of a constant current welder i.e. arc welder.transformer based machines have a drooping curve,that is to say as you tighten arc length the voltage will drop and the amps will rise at a fairly constant rate.
inverters,especially small single phase ones,the volt/amp curve is almost flat.that means that as you close arc length,the amps stay fairly constant up to a point and then the arc will extinguish.an arc force setting on a welder modifies this flattish characteristic to function more like the drooping curve found in transformer based machines.
its the best i can describe it.ill try to find pics of each volt/amp curve

It's going to take a bit of study on my part to understand what you just said but that is exactly the answer I was looking for! Now I have some homework to do.

Thanks!

Greetings. I haven't tried 6010 but am quite pleased with how my 280DX runs 7018. Just my $0.02 worth.
-Eldon

Blue Diver wrote:

Shield Arc wrote:My Dynasty 300 will run 6010, but in reality it flat sucks with SMAW!

You are the first person I've talked to on here that says the Dynasty sucks at stick. I am looking into buying a Dynasty 280DX and will use it a lot for stick as well as TIG (A lot for a non-fabrication company anyways). I would like to hear more on why it sucks at SMAW.

I have posted a bunch about buying a welder and haven't yet because I really want to make sure I get this buy right. I'm not interested in buyers remorse and have the time to really research before I buy.

Thanks!

It's been years since I used my Dynasty 300 for SMAW. I just was never impressed with the arc. Now far as Tig welding, it's hands down the best Tig machine I've ever used! The Dynasty 300 on SMAW is the reason I bought my first Everlast SMAW machine. I wish the PowerArc 300s were available when I bought my PowerArc 200, I wouldn't have bought the PowerArc 200.

xwrench wrote:Greetings. I haven't tried 6010 but am quite pleased with how my 280DX runs 7018. Just my $0.02 worth.
-Eldon

Any chance you would be interested in running some 6010 to see how it does? I'd be interested to hear about it.

-Don

I'll pick up a small pack on Monday and see how it burns. Just for kicks I'll run some with my Lincoln 210 MP also for comparison.


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No doubt about it. I'm sorry to report that my 280DX does not like 6010 at all. With the dig set to 75%, it's doable but far from a smooth stable arc. My Lincoln 210 MP is a little better but I really can't recommend either machine for running 6010. They do, however, run low hydrogen rods quite nicely.
Cheers.
-Eldon


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Just because I had some sitting on my bench, I just tried some 6013. Maybe a little better but nowhere near what a good transformer machine does. Lucky for me I rarely stick weld and have my dad's old pipeliner machine should the need arise.
-Eldon


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xwrench,

I appreciate you taking the time to try them out. That is unfortunate to hear. I have been looking into getting a shop machine for a while and had pretty much narrowed it down to the Dynasty series. Now I am not so sure. Not that I am a huge fan of welding 6010 but we are a marine company and the 60 series rods definitely work better on some of the rusty crap we weld on when we fab and do shop maintenance.

For the price of the machine, I really didn't want to be limited on something as simple as a 6010. I'm not out on the Dynasty but I will have to think a bit harder before the final purchase.

Blue Diver why not go ahead and buy the Dynasty? I don't think you'll find a better Tig welder. Then buy an Everlast PowerArc 300. You get adjustable hot start, and arc force. They run 6010 fantastically!
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/produ ... werarc-300

Blue Diver wrote:xwrench,

I appreciate you taking the time to try them out. That is unfortunate to hear. I have been looking into getting a shop machine for a while and had pretty much narrowed it down to the Dynasty series. Now I am not so sure. Not that I am a huge fan of welding 6010 but we are a marine company and the 60 series rods definitely work better on some of the rusty crap we weld on when we fab and do shop maintenance.

For the price of the machine, I really didn't want to be limited on something as simple as a 6010. I'm not out on the Dynasty but I will have to think a bit harder before the final purchase.

The best portable welder that does everything flawlessly is Fronius Magicwave 2200 (imho)
Tig welds like a dynasty,stick welds like a lincoln.

If you like miller and mostly tig then a dynasty is ideal.once theyre dialled in right theyre still fairly good at stick

just run 6011, that's all I ever see. leave the 6010 for the pipewelder's, it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them using it and that usage is getting chipped away at all the time.

from the Forney products page

https://www.forneyind.com/store/results ... ory_id=601

UPDATE: I told the Airgas dealer that sold me my machines that they don't run 6010 and we got on speaker phone with Miller who insist it should run it fine. The rod I did the test with is Fourney 6010. The package says it will run AC or DC- or DC+. The Airgas and miller guys says that 6010 is DC only and had me retest with some Lincoln 6010. What a big difference! I'm not 6010's biggest fan anyway, but it's not bad now. I could weld all day with it and not be cussing
Cheers.
-Eldon

Another really good 6010 for running on inverter welders is ESAB's 10P-Plus.

Shield Arc wrote:Blue Diver why not go ahead and buy the Dynasty? I don't think you'll find a better Tig welder. Then buy an Everlast PowerArc 300. You get adjustable hot start, and arc force. They run 6010 fantastically!
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/produ ... werarc-300

Like I said, I'm not a fab shop and occasionally weld anything, sometimes its aluminums or ss that needs a TIG weld and sometimes its 1/2" mild steel plate and I'd rather use stick. For the price, I didn't want to get into a bunch of machines. I wanted to pony up, buy one good machine that will last and make all of the welds I need and then some. I don't weld 6010 or 6011 often but I don't want that limitation hanging over my head. Guaranteed the very first thing I need to do will be something requiring a 6010 weld (dont know a situation where that would happen but it definitely would).

xwrench wrote:UPDATE: I told the Airgas dealer that sold me my machines that they don't run 6010 and we got on speaker phone with Miller who insist it should run it fine. The rod I did the test with is Fourney 6010. The package says it will run AC or DC- or DC+. The Airgas and miller guys says that 6010 is DC only and had me retest with some Lincoln 6010. What a big difference! I'm not 6010's biggest fan anyway, but it's not bad now. I could weld all day with it and not be cussing
Cheers.
-Eldon

Thanks for the update! Now I'm leaning back to the Dynasty again.

xwrench wrote:UPDATE: I told the Airgas dealer that sold me my machines that they don't run 6010 and we got on speaker phone with Miller who insist it should run it fine. The rod I did the test with is Fourney 6010. The package says it will run AC or DC- or DC+. The Airgas and miller guys says that 6010 is DC only and had me retest with some Lincoln 6010. What a big difference! I'm not 6010's biggest fan anyway, but it's not bad now. I could weld all day with it and not be cussing
Cheers.
-Eldon

Could you do a test welding open root on DC(-)?
My Kemppi 2300 manages ok with 6010 on filler and cap passes on DC(+) but it can't weld for sh!t in DC(-) for open root.
I see that Miller states that the 280DX has 60V OCV, usually welders with that low OCV do not do well on 6010.

there is no situation unless it is for a pipe root, or possibly though unlikely given your description of the work you do, a butt root to weld with 6010. if you are doing marine based work get the miller; if you have to run a 60xx rod run 6011, where is the problem there? I see it used regularly in marine environments for exactly the reasons you described.

as to the guy that was on the phone with miller and his lws; could you do a shot of that package? Forney is pretty clear about the setting for their 6010.

from their site:

E6010 mild steel "Pipe Rod" is an all purpose electrode used in all positions. A deep penetrating rod for carbon and galvanized steel. E6010 is for use with a DC welder and runs on DCEP (reverse polarity). It is ideal for welding through light to medium amounts of dirt, rust or paint. Recommended Polarity: DCEP (Reverse Polarity)

Blue Driver for what little you think you might run 6010, I sure wouldn't let that stop me from buying the Dynasty. What I would do is buy the Dynasty, once you have it home, and running. Start buying small quantities of different brands of 6010. I would start with ESAB's 10P-Plus. Then Lincoln's 5P-Plus. Play with different setting with the dig. If all fails, buy some Hobart 335A 6011, it is child's play to run.

Shield Arc wrote:Blue Diver why not go ahead and buy the Dynasty? I don't think you'll find a better Tig welder. Then buy an Everlast PowerArc 300. You get adjustable hot start, and arc force. They run 6010 fantastically!
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/produ ... werarc-300

So, just to reiterate, you'd recommend the PA300 over the 200 because of the extra adjustability/operator control?

I've gotta say I've been considering the PA200 for it's size, duty cycle, and price.

The PA-200 is a strange duck when running 6010! You have to hold a very close arc length. Once I got that through my thick head it runs ESAB's 10P-Plus 6010 like a dream. It Runs ESAB's Atom Arc 7018 very very nice!
The PA-300 runs 6010 fantastically! I just wish it wet out a little more with 7018. It runs Lincoln's Excalibur 7018 acceptable. But the PA-200 runs 7018 better. For the money they cost I can't see where you'll go wrong with either one. The adjustable hot start means nothing to me! I've started a few rods in my time. The adjustable arc force is fun! Again not really needed tho!