[MrShaw]

Good morning everyone!

Today I am going to tackle vertical with some 7018s.

Is a vertical lap joint and vertical t joint basically the same thing? Or is there a difference in how to weld them?

My instructor has me weld a flat lap joint in one pass, actually coming over the top of the joint.

But I've seen people run 2 stringers (basically just dragging the rod, and then padding a bead at the top) for lap joints (in the flat position) like you would a t joint. Does that make sense? I'm using two totally different motions and rod angles for those joints.

So now that I'm moving to vertical, I was wondering if they get welded the same.

Thanks for your time!

[AKweldshop]

Good morning everyone!

Today I am going to tackle vertical with some 7018s.

Is a vertical lap joint and vertical t joint basically the same thing? Or is there a difference in how to weld them?

My instructor has me weld a flat lap joint in one pass, actually coming over the top of the joint.

But I've seen people run 2 stringers (basically just dragging the rod, and then padding a bead at the top) for lap joints (in the flat position) like you would a t joint. Does that make sense? I'm using two totally different motions and rod angles for those joints.

So now that I'm moving to vertical, I was wondering if they get welded the same.

Thanks for your time!

Here's three excellent videos for you.


Lap joints
http://welding-tv.com/2013/07/30/weldin ... tons-more/


part 1
http://welding-tv.com/stick-welding-test-tips-part-1/

part 2
http://welding-tv.com/stick-welding-test-tips-part-2/

[mbmalone]

I am also going to be running vertical stringers with 6010 and 7018, tomorrow.
I learned that there is a difference in techniques when you run it when the puddle is cold and when the puddle is hot.

It was in the lincoln manual or somewhere like that. It was something like long arcing away at the top, then bringing it in short to actually deposit metal, then long-arc up and away again. Nobody ever showed me much, so I've been forced to read a little more. I have also used an upwards triangular pattern with pretty good success.

Good morning everyone!

Today I am going to tackle vertical with some 7018s.

[79jasper]

In school for the vertical t, we went straight up. No weave or anything.
I forget what size 7018 we were running. Not the smallest and not the biggest.
Was running about 118 amps.
Get comfortable.
At the top we just flipped it to avoid tits. Gravity is such a great thing. Lol
Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[mbmalone]

How to you run a 1/8" 6010 vertical bead?
My welder only seemed able to make one acceptable vertical bead at 90A

The rod angle was basically horizontal and I was trying to hold a very tight bead, but not having arc control (stepped trans)
The flux was funny, like it could be chipped off.

What was I doing wrong, this was not a T-Joint?

7018 was much much better, but what about 6010?

[Braehill]

mbmalone,
Most people run 6010 downhill if I remember correctly and 7018 uphill.

Len

[Otto Nobedder]

6010 runs fine "up" or "down".

I like 100-105A, hot enough that if you take time to keyhole, whip, pause, you'll burn up the flux.

At 105A, once the arc is established, you can simply "shove" the rod into the root and slowly drag it up (or down). You'll be amazed how much force you can push the rod in with, without sticking.

Again, WAY easier to write than to do....

Steve S

[AKweldshop]

Here's a vertical up weld I just did. Still warm btw.

2" by 3/8" thick flat bar.

3f position.


Esab miniarc 161 on 115v.
110amps.
20amp breaker.

1/8" Jet LH-78 MR E-7018.

Weaving about!!

"Disclaimer"

Nowhere is this post will you find bragging or compliment requesting comments.
Don't beat me up that the weld don't have perfect wash-in, and that the toes aren't made with a ruler, and that well, oh, you didn't see that arc strike....

IMG_5128.JPG (73.17 KiB) Viewed 3016 times

IMG_5129.JPG (54.32 KiB) Viewed 3016 times

[MinnesotaDave]

Pretty good for what amounts to a large toaster oven
I'm getting to where I believe inverters may actually be "almost" as good as big, heavy, dirty, old welders

I prefer to weave going up too

[Superiorwelding]

John,
Not bad for a wookie see what I mean about a tight weave?

Dave,
I think you will really like inverters once you get the hang of them. What's funny is I just re-took my 3G 7018 with the 350MP and for kicks after I was done, set the DC600 up for stick. That thing had a better arc and had a better bead profile than the hybrid machine. Moral of the story is they are both good for various situations.
-Jonathan

[MinnesotaDave]

John,
Not bad for a wookie see what I mean about a tight weave?

Dave,
I think you will really like inverters once you get the hang of them. What's funny is I just re-took my 3G 7018 with the 350MP and for kicks after I was done, set the DC600 up for stick. That thing had a better arc and had a better bead profile than the hybrid machine. Moral of the story is they are both good for various situations.
-Jonathan

You're right, my invertec is basically as good as my Airco - and weighs 865 pounds less.....
My little maxstar is a step down but still plenty good to get'er done

[AKweldshop]

John,
Not bad for a wookie see what I mean about a tight weave?

Dave,
I think you will really like inverters once you get the hang of them. What's funny is I just re-took my 3G 7018 with the 350MP and for kicks after I was done, set the DC600 up for stick. That thing had a better arc and had a better bead profile than the hybrid machine. Moral of the story is they are both good for various situations.
-Jonathan

You're right, my invertec is basically as good as my Airco - and weighs 865 pounds less.....
My little maxstar is a step down but still plenty good to get'er done

Basically???

Your not sold yet?

[MinnesotaDave]

You're right, my invertec is basically as good as my Airco - and weighs 865 pounds less.....
My little maxstar is a step down but still plenty good to get'er done

Basically???

Your not sold yet?

Just a bunch of computerized wizz bang fancy stuff to try and mimic the excellent arc of my old beastie
....ok, to the engineers credit - they did it with a drastic reduction in weight and power use - but longevity of the machines takes the hit. Can't have everything I guess

[Otto Nobedder]

Yeah, I doubt my great-grandaughter will be telling her friends, "This was my paw-paw's inverter. It runs just like when he used to 40 years ago..."

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

Yeah, I doubt my great-grandaughter will be telling her friends, "This was my paw-paw's inverter. It runs just like when he used to 40 years ago..."

Steve S

Exactly - cool usable technology, but won't last long.

[Bill Beauregard]

Pretty good for what amounts to a large toaster oven
I'm getting to where I believe inverters may actually be "almost" as good as big, heavy, dirty, old welders

I prefer to weave going up too

Don't do it Dave! You are the last hold out in the world. You'll upset the balance, it might affect the Earth's orbit. Should you come over to the dark side, it will leave no one but the many thousands of welders using 4000 LB Lincoln pipeline welders from an earlier century! Evil will win over good!

[MinnesotaDave]

Pretty good for what amounts to a large toaster oven
I'm getting to where I believe inverters may actually be "almost" as good as big, heavy, dirty, old welders

I prefer to weave going up too

Don't do it Dave! You are the last hold out in the world. You'll upset the balance, it might affect the Earth's orbit. Should you come over to the dark side, it will leave no one but the many thousands of welders using 4000 LB Lincoln pipeline welders from an earlier century! Evil will win over good!

Haha! Don't worry, my goal is to have enough old equipment to cause the earth to wobble

[mbmalone]

I'm thinking I can't shove a rod in, without arc control, or it's just going to snuff the rod out .... and if I crack up the heat to keep from snuffing, it becomes a real goopy mess.

I do have a 105A DCEP selection available. 95A or 105A, nothing in between.

Is running vertical beads up something that I could do for practice? I only have a tombstone and if that would be useless, I'd rather not waste my time trying to do it. When I tried, it's like the flux wouldn't chip off, it had become one with the metal.

I know I can crank up the heat and run downhill. I never really tried, although it looked interesting for speeding up home fabrication. For practicing, I don't see it helping much except maybe to smooth out a horribly botched uphill run, so I can dip the plate in a bucket and try another uphill run without having to grind that bead down, like crazy.

6010 runs fine "up" or "down".

I like 100-105A, hot enough that if you take time to keyhole, whip, pause, you'll burn up the flux.

At 105A, once the arc is established, you can simply "shove" the rod into the root and slowly drag it up (or down). You'll be amazed how much force you can push the rod in with, without sticking.

Again, WAY easier to write than to do....

Steve S

[mbmalone]

In school we ran 3/32" 7018 and not nearly that hot, so you must have been using 1/8" rods. No weave or anything?
The didn't teach us about changing the angle at the top, but I know you have to do something because usually my top has a U in it, with a glob. I would shoot the rod a lot deeper and over the top at the end, trying to throw the glob over the top to fill-in the U. How's that for trying to teach yourself?

I asked one day, why don't you just tell us some of the "tricks" so we don't waste weeks/months trying to figure out this stuff. I was just told, oh you'll learn to weld once you get on the job, we can't teach you everything. I thought that was pathetic, considering I was asking specific questions regarding issues I was having. I know now to change the rod angle at the end, even if I can't really do it correctly. It works sometimes, but I'm usually too hot when I reach that point. I had to watch old youtube videos to figure it out.

In school for the vertical t, we went straight up. No weave or anything.
I forget what size 7018 we were running. Not the smallest and not the biggest.
Was running about 118 amps.
Get comfortable.
At the top we just flipped it to avoid tits. Gravity is such a great thing. Lol
Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[mbmalone]

I never tried 1/8" 7018, but I heard it was harder to control.
Is that just one pass, or was there a bead underneath?

I think it looks pretty good. I also weave my verticals, can't run a straight bead.
thanks for posting ....

Here's a vertical up weld I just did.

2" by 3/8" thick flat bar.
3f position.
Esab miniarc 161
110amps.
1/8" Jet LH-78 MR E-7018

[mbmalone]

I wonder if you could parallel (2) Airco's?
I could even swap you the Airco I found, for your inverter.
You would just have to cover shipping costs for the Airco from New Orleans to Minnesota.

Haha! Don't worry, my goal is to have enough old equipment to cause the earth to wobble

[mbmalone]

If you call AK's chinese welder a "toaster oven" again, he might go Gorilla on yo A$$

Pretty good for what amounts to a large toaster oven

[AKweldshop]

I never tried 1/8" 7018, but I heard it was harder to control.
Is that just one pass, or was there a bead underneath?

I think it looks pretty good. I also weave my verticals, can't run a straight bead.
thanks for posting ....

Here's a vertical up weld I just did.

2" by 3/8" thick flat bar.
3f position.
Esab miniarc 161
110amps.
1/8" Jet LH-78 MR E-7018

That was a lot of beads underneath.
I start out like this, and fill er up!!!

IMG_5134.JPG (84.33 KiB) Viewed 2128 times

First pass, move strait up.

IMG_5137.JPG (72.35 KiB) Viewed 2128 times

Now remember, these beads are strictly practice, just trying new techniques etc.

IMG_5131.JPG (82.47 KiB) Viewed 2128 times

But If I was doing a butt weld vertical up, I could make a bead that big in one pass.

You'll be happy to know I sold that Esab welder last night.
Now every welder I own is Lincoln.

Happy now??!!

[AKweldshop]

1/2" plate.
120amps 100% arc force.
Invertec 275!

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IMG_3251.JPG (100.57 KiB) Viewed 2128 times

IMG_3067.JPG (91.24 KiB) Viewed 2128 times

[AKweldshop]

Don't beat me up on these beads.
It's just practice on scrap metal....