Welding Tips and Tricks

Hi, Can anyone give me some advice as to the correct rods to use for a project that I am planning. I need to build a boat trailer for a Bayliner 195. My welder has a max output of around 150 Amps. For day to day jobs I use 2.4mm rods or on rare occasions 3.2mm, i use 6013 rods since they are the most readily available in Ireland. For the trailer that I wish to build I will mostly be using 4mm mild steel box sections. What rods would best suit this job. I intend on having the trailer hot dip galvanised once complete. Should I use a 6013 all the way or just for the root and then something like a 7018. I would imagine that the most I will need on the load bearing welds will be three runs. Is it possible to get 7018 for DC or are they only suited to AC plant (which I don't have). Because I intend on having the trailer galvanised I would prefer a rod that will create an easily removable slag so that I don't need to spend too long trying to clean up the welds. Those of you who work in inches I apologize for using metric but I'm no good with imperial! Thanks.

G'day mate,

Welcome to the show. A project like a tralier will be fine with 6013, as they are a general purpose rod and require no special treatment. Run off dc either polarity or ac. As long as you are comfortable with the welding, and it is designed to meet all relivant safety standards in Ireland, youre laughing. For 4mm thick stuff, 3.2 are a good bet, as you can turn the heat up. A packet of 2.5 would be handy for tacking and fiddly stuff.

Good luck mate.

Mick

6013 is fine. Weld both sides in areas where that is possible (spring hangers, etc)

If you are comfortable and confident with 6013 then by all means, have at it.
Personally I prefer a low hydrogen rod like 7018 or even 8018. Yes they are
made for DCEP. As long as the fit up is good I'd even run the root pass with them.
Us old shipyard welders didn't have the luxury of using fast freeze downhand on open roots.
We had to do all verticals uphill with low hydrogen. Good fit ups and careful attention to
heat input yields some very strong, clean welds. 3/32" & 1/8" should handle the whole job.
Sorry for the inch measurements but metric measurements were not even taught in school
yet when this old timer was sleeping in class!

Personally, 6013 is for repairing trash cans and broken shovels. But, hey, to each his own.

Welcome to the forum josephinring.

If your used to 6013 use that - as long as it's good quality you will have no problems & the slag comes off way easier than most 7018 available this side of the pond - Esab / Boc - Murex / Bohler are all good rods & will produce a weld as strong as the RHS the trailer is made from - the biggest strength issues are how it's contructed / braced / gusseted - there is nothing wrong with using 7018 - but if your not used to it the results will likely need alot of clean up & I don't see the need - also they need to be kept in a rod oven which you may not have - as the majority of active members here are from the USA there will be some hate on the 6013 - either they have some real bad stuff over there or it's plain un-american to admit to using it ( except Otto admitted to some in the past ! ) there is a Paddy on You Tube that does pipe welds that pass relevant testing & look great with 6013 - not sure of the brand - good luck with the project.

I'm a 7018 man.
On 4mm thick steel, I'd use a 1/8 7018 at about 125amps DCEP....
If you got good fits, one pass is good enough.

Try some of each, see which one you prefer....

If 7018 is run right, it should clean up good.

But, I've never used 6013 worth cotter pins.

IMVHO,
~John

ps. Welcome to the forum.
Upload some pics of it, if you can.

You'll be just fine with 6013, with two caveats...

Since this will go down the road, use a fresh batch, and keep them warm and dry (eliminate damp flux issues).

6013 is not, as someone stated, a "fast-freeze" rod, like 6011, but it IS a "low-penetration" rod, so prep with that in mind. Bevel crossmembers to a small land or knife-edge, so you bond to as much of the base metal as possible.

I built large floating boat docks for a few years, using nothing but 6013, and never had to repair one of my own welds, on a huge lake with 40' 2000HP cigar boats running unrestricted.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:6013 is not, as someone stated, a "fast-freeze" rod, like 6011, but it IS a "low-penetration" rod, so prep with that in mind.

Steve S

Who said 6013 was a fast freeze rod?
I was merely explaining how us in the Naval shipyards were stuck using low hydrogen for everything.
6010 or 6011 wasn't even allowed through the gated.

I don't see anywhere where someone claimed 6013 was a fast freeze rod. Just sayin'.

Welding RHS frames I actually think the limited penetration can work in your favor as the radius on the tube creates many open roots which suit it or Mig - it all depends on how you cut / design joints - I don't use it on critical stuff but in the UK we seem to have better quality rods & they work fine - it maybe our rods evolved independently either side of the pond with ours suiting AC as until very recently with inverters that's all there was - even our 7018 are all AC / DC - never seen a DC only version - only limitation was 70 volts OCV.

I will play devils advocate. First I will say there is nothing wrong with using 6013. I would prefer 7018 because of the higher tensile strength and it has a little more elongation. Also, for the appearance, 7018 would look better, in my opinion. Again nothing wrong with the 6013 just wanted to show some of the other side.
-Jonathan

rake wrote:

Otto Nobedder wrote:6013 is not, as someone stated, a "fast-freeze" rod, like 6011, but it IS a "low-penetration" rod, so prep with that in mind.

Steve S

Who said 6013 was a fast freeze rod?
I was merely explaining how us in the Naval shipyards were stuck using low hydrogen for everything.
6010 or 6011 wasn't even allowed through the gated.

I don't see anywhere where someone claimed 6013 was a fast freeze rod. Just sayin'.

I may, in fact, have pulled that "gem' from another thread. I find myself chasing threads so fast, I'm surprised I don't get it wrong more often...

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:

rake wrote:

Otto Nobedder wrote:6013 is not, as someone stated, a "fast-freeze" rod, like 6011, but it IS a "low-penetration" rod, so prep with that in mind.

Steve S

Who said 6013 was a fast freeze rod?
I was merely explaining how us in the Naval shipyards were stuck using low hydrogen for everything.
6010 or 6011 wasn't even allowed through the gated.

I don't see anywhere where someone claimed 6013 was a fast freeze rod. Just sayin'.

I may, in fact, have pulled that "gem' from another thread. I find myself chasing threads so fast, I'm surprised I don't get it wrong more often...

Steve S

Steve,
I wrote a paragraph once and when I went to push "Submit" I realized I wrote that for a totally different topic. You are not alone in that.
-Jonathan

I really like bananas for breakfast......wait, im mean, i do that some times.

Otto Nobedder wrote:

rake wrote:

Otto Nobedder wrote:6013 is not, as someone stated, a "fast-freeze" rod, like 6011, but it IS a "low-penetration" rod, so prep with that in mind.

Steve S

Who said 6013 was a fast freeze rod?
I was merely explaining how us in the Naval shipyards were stuck using low hydrogen for everything.
6010 or 6011 wasn't even allowed through the gated.

I don't see anywhere where someone claimed 6013 was a fast freeze rod. Just sayin'.

I may, in fact, have pulled that "gem' from another thread. I find myself chasing threads so fast, I'm surprised I don't get it wrong more often...

Steve S

Come on Steve keep it together here. We don't want drama started!

I am like John, I like 7018. I have both 6013 and 7018 rods and use them both with no trouble. I just welded a plow together the other day to plow out the ditch along the drive way and I welded it with 7018 and it never gave me any trouble and I ended up breaking the plow blade and not my welds. I have also welded parts back on the tractor with 6013 and never had to work on them again so as long as you know what your doing, either would work good. If you were building a gooseneck trailer to haul hay on or to haul a tractor from place to place then I would lean toward 7018 but I have build a utility trailer before with all 6013 and it works just fine. I have never ran anything smaller than 1/8" so I can't speak for the difference in rod size but that is my opinion.
Matt

Once you get "good", (loose term I know) with 7018 in all positions, you'll never use another rod.

~John

I am still "learning" 7018 and I already love them. I have about 50 pounds of 6010 that my brother in law gave me that were thrown out at his work and he gave me 10 pound of Lincoln Excalibur 7018 and I have yet to crack the seal on them. I can't wait to give them a try. They threw that can away because someone dropped the can and dented it and they were afraid that the flux was broke so they threw them away. I will take them!

I'm shocked that so many here are supporting the use of 6013 for a trailer that will be hauling a boat! A boat that's 20' in length and weighs over 3,000 lbs with fuel. Now couple that with other "stuff" loaded into the boat, the size and weight of the engine chosen plus the weight of the trailer itself. A trailer takes a lot of "impact," sheering force and torsion on it's critical weld joints. With the ease of simply suggesting switching from a 6013 to 7018, why would anyone NOT recommend the better of the two electrode choices?

I'm with AK on the use of 7018's for this project. 7018 is designed for sheering stress loads and the impacts of trailer weld joints sustaining bouncing and tugging down the roadway. 6013 is NOT designed for any of the stuff I mentioned, for it lacks ductility and impact toughness. (Think: "load carrying trailer"). Also, I know the OP said he only has DC current available, but that's perfect for 7018! Try using the 3/32" (2.4mm) 7018's for more hand control and coordination if you're worried about cosmetics. FWIW, I'd even take a 7018AC rod before I'd use 6013 for a trailer.

A 6013 welded trailer is akin to making you're own "Harbor Freight" trailer, instead of just buying it pre-fab'd. Also what concerns me is the fact that the OP said he prefers the "2.4mm" (3/32") 6013's. For a boat trailer, I find that choice of electrode to be unacceptable, unless I was a Chinese "engineer" that worked for Harbor Freight! Nobody here tells the OP, "hey bud, that's not a good idea" ????

Will 6013 work for a trailer? Sure will. So would a 110v wire welder on bridge ...for about a day. A shelf, table, or a boat dock for example are fine for 6013 because those structures are not constantly sustaining the cumulative stress abuse from sheering force, torsion stress and impacts (push/pull from trailering). Those relatively "fixed" structured examples I mentioned are relatively static and stationary most of the time, whereas a moving towed trailer bearing a load however, is not.

Use the right tool for metal fabrication. 7018 for a boat trailer, hands down.

Righteo....
I put this question to my facebook group. I gave them the choice between 6012/13s or 7016/18s (7016s being low hy without iron powder) and out of
appox. 50 people 7016s won hands down. Go figure hey.

I suppose if you look at a professional built one, it will be migged and that will be 70s x wire. Not even sure if you can biy 60s mig wire.

Mick

So we are still hating on the 6013 then ! - this " professionally " built trailer will almost certainly be mig welded ( by low wage monkeys / immigrant labor ) if you look at most of them without the galvanized / powder coat or paint finish those welds won't be great ! - the strength of the weld is not that crucial - so long as there is enough of it & commercial builds will not use doubling plates / gussets etc where most home built ones will - they engineer to a price after a computer designs the minimum possible material to use - even at the permitted weight they flex all over the place & fatigue crack - most home builds will be over engineered so 6013 welds will not drastically reduce strength - after all it's made of thin wall RHS with a likely tensile strength less than that of the weld & the rounded edges will produce many open root welds - as long as the axle & tow point is adequately fixed - the rest will be OK - biggest question for a home build is judging the required size / wall thickness of the main chassis rails as a compromise between cost / weight against predicted flex with the weight of the boat ( which will always be more than you think ! )

Just my opinion - but 6013 is acceptable if done well on an adequately designed trailer - it's still better for an amateur if he is not used to 7018 or if a suitable capacity mig is not available.

noddybrian wrote:...as long as the axle & tow point is adequately fixed - the rest will be OK ...

"Ok" really isn't "good enough" for a trailer carrying a boat. Perhaps a small trailer that carries a lawn mower and garden rakes the 6013 might be plausible.

noddybrian wrote:...Just my opinion - but 6013 is acceptable if done well on an adequately designed trailer - it's still better for an amateur if he is not used to 7018 or if a suitable capacity mig is not available.

Well no disrespect to the OP or to you noddybrian, however based on his question about building a trailer and which electrode to use, it's clear to me that he does NOT have the experience in either "designing" or let alone "building" a big boat trailer. So, for an amateur fabricator, I would highly recommend a few things FIRST, before putting a HEAVY BOAT TRAILER together.

To the OP: If you're uncomfortable with 7018, practice more with it before actual use for a trailer. For flat welding, it's easier than 6013. Just drag it and it's less susceptible to "worm holes," unlike 6013. Vertical up will take some practice, but sooner than later, you'll "get it." Second, unless you have experience and/or training in designing things like a BIG boat trailer, find some genuine trusted design plans for the trailer that you want first. Then follow those design plans. Three, keep practicing with 7018's. Remember, "Baby steps" first.

There's just some things some people shouldn't do without proper training or experience or both. A few examples are: flying an airplane, operating heavy equipment, shooting a gun for the first time, ...or welding a big project that will be towed down the road, where human life and property may be at (increased) risk due to jacked-up 6013 welds.

josephinring wrote:Hi, Can anyone give me some advice as to the correct rods to use for a project that I am planning. I need to build a boat trailer for a Bayliner 195. My welder has a max output of around 150 Amps. For day to day jobs I use 2.4mm rods or on rare occasions 3.2mm, i use 6013 rods since they are the most readily available in Ireland. For the trailer that I wish to build I will mostly be using 4mm mild steel box sections. What rods would best suit this job. I intend on having the trailer hot dip galvanised once complete. Should I use a 6013 all the way or just for the root and then something like a 7018. I would imagine that the most I will need on the load bearing welds will be three runs. Is it possible to get 7018 for DC or are they only suited to AC plant (which I don't have). Because I intend on having the trailer galvanised I would prefer a rod that will create an easily removable slag so that I don't need to spend too long trying to clean up the welds. Those of you who work in inches I apologize for using metric but I'm no good with imperial! Thanks.

Joseph,

You really need to get us a picture of your welds...

Anyone who uses 3/32 6013 on 5/32 steel for a boat trailer, had better have skill.

I wouldn't use 6013 for welding anything. Plain and Simple.

7018 will run on a 150 amp DC machine (which the OP has)

I don't know if you can get 7018 in Ireland....

This had better not turn into a Trailer Fail thread.

~John

@ AK

Rods vary a great deal on either side of the pond - we have some extremely bad 7018 here - some quite good ones ( but mentally expensive ) & almost none that you have over there - almost all require 70 volts OCV & not all inverters provide this hence the results are not good - so the OP may want to check this out first - if nothing else is around he should find Esab unitrode 48.00 available.

Now why would this turn into a trailer fail thread ? the Irish have a proud engineering heritage - after all they built Titanic !!!!!

Noddy,

We've been down this path, OCV, across the pond stuff.

I realize it....

But, its still 6013, on a boat trailer. Bad combination.

We don't know how it turned out, the design, or the welds....

Joseph has not updated the thread on how it turned out....

OCV can be overcome by using more amperage.....


~John