[Chips O'Toole]

In August I complained that I could not strike an arc with my new Titanium 200 Unlimited and 6011 and 7018. I stuck the rods over and over. Today I got back to work, and I made some progress. I am making a brace to hold my tractor's front end loader up, and in order to make it, I had to cut one side out of a 2.5" square tube, and I used that side to lay stick beads for practice.

I will want to put a cap on one end of the tubing, and it will look better if I can put some welds inside it. Stick would be handy for that, if I could pull it off.

Since August, I have hooked up some 250V sockets in my shop, so today I ran the welder from one of those sockets instead of using 125.

Back then, I was not able to do much of anything with 6011. Today it worked a lot better. At 90 amps, I managed to start beads most of the time. My big problem is that the flux burns so violently it blows the weld all over the place. I can't get a normal humped weld most of the time. They welds are wide and flat.

I'm pretty sure I'm keeping the arc short enough. I'm really jamming the rod in there to keep up with the melting.

I can't figure out how I'm supposed to join two pieces of metal with this stuff, with it blowing the weld all over.

With 7018, things went very smoothly. I can start arcs easily almost all the time, and the beads look like beads. I do have a problem with them coming out spoon-shaped, however. When I end a bead, no matter what I do, I get a scoop-shaped area at the end of it. Wondering what is causing that. I ran the welder at 105, which seemed to work best.

I used 3/32" rods for the most part, although I did try a couple of 1/8" 6011 rods.

It seemed like the 6011 rods (Harbor Freight) were not completely consistent. I had problems with one rod sputtering and quitting, but the others were easier to deal with. I don't know if it's possible to get a bad rod from time to time. Maybe something else caused the problem.

Overall, I consider it a good day. I can actually produce a bead most of the time, and I could conceivably use 7018 to join two pieces of metal if I had to.

09 07 19 crazy 6011 welds small.jpg (122.31 KiB) Viewed 1795 times

09 07 19 7018 stick welds that look like spoons small.jpg (139.16 KiB) Viewed 1795 times

[Mike Westbrook]

I suspect your turning up the amperage to counteract a machine with low ocv open circuit voltage they strike nice but burn fast 6011 is a keep up rod but 7018 is more of a steady pace if your spooned out on the end speed up last inch back up and almost lay a double stacked bead to finish or try a good tack at the end this allows more meat at the end for an already heat soaked run

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[Chips O'Toole]

Does 90 amps sound high for laying 6011 beads on 1/4" steel?

This welder has a hot-start feature. I wasn't paying any attention to it. It was set on 66, which is clearly lower than 90 and 105, so I suppose I was doing it wrong.

I'm afraid I got my photos mixed up. The welds in the 7018 photo look like the weird 6011 welds.

[tweake]

Does 90 amps sound high for laying 6011 beads on 1/4" steel?

This welder has a hot-start feature. I wasn't paying any attention to it. It was set on 66, which is clearly lower than 90 and 105, so I suppose I was doing it wrong.

I'm afraid I got my photos mixed up. The welds in the 7018 photo look like the weird 6011 welds.

90 amps sounds high but that could just be the rods. by mem i think the ones i have here i run at 70 amp.

i suspect mike is correct in that your welders welding voltage (not OCV which doesn't really apply to inverters) is to low.
my multi is very similar, needs more amps and often cuts outs with 6011. still better than my tig which will not run them at all on stick mode.
i have another small tig/stick machine that runs 6011 very nicely and almost runs 6010.
its all down to how the machine is setup.

i suggest just stick to rutile and basic electrodes.

[Oscar]

Havent seen someone have so much trouble with stick welding in a long time. It's either the machine or crappy rods, but I've ran cheapie rods and never had so much trouble. Are you on DCEP? Set the hot start to about 30%, and if you have arc force (aka "dig"), set it to high enough that when you deliberately push the rod into the work piece, it doesn't stick (within reason).

Better yet just get a better stick welder.

[Chips O'Toole]

i suspect mike is correct in that your welders welding voltage (not OCV which doesn't really apply to inverters) is to low.

The manual says the OCV is 69 volts.

It appears that there is no way to know the exact hot-start voltage. I thought it said 66 volts on the display, but it looks like that was some other quantity. I think the dial just gives you 1 to 10, and you have to guess what those numbers mean. I'm going to turn it up higher. I was somewhere in the middle range.

Havent seen someone have so much trouble with stick welding in a long time. It's either the machine or crappy rods, but I've ran cheapie rods and never had so much trouble. Are you on DCEP?

The ground is negative.

I don't think the machine is the problem. This is about the third time I've used this thing, and my only previous stick experience was a sad and desperate effort to reattach a bush hog wing about two years back. The last effort was way better than the first.

A lot of it is just adjusting to a new method. It's hard to get used to the way stick rushes me. It just takes off, and you have to stay with it whether you're ready or not.

[Mike Westbrook]

At 69 they should light up decent you may just be a little high on the amperage are you trying to restrike 7018 if so grab a brick rock coarse sandpaper and scratch the rod tip between or they'll be harder to restrike

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[Louie1961]

by spoon shaped are you referring to where you terminate the weld beads? if yes, you aren't filling the puddle before terminating the arc. Circle the rod a few times to fill the puddle then snap it out.

PS, it looks like you are long arcing too. I know you said you don't think so, but the spatter and weld beads say otherwise.

[Chips O'Toole]

I turned the hot start up, and I had very few problems with the rod sticking after that.

As for the spoon thing, yes, I am referring to the ends of the beads. I have tried going back over them, but that just digs a big hole. I saw a professional on Youtube leaving the same kinds of ends on his beads, so maybe it's not that big a deal. I will keep working on it.

Things are getting better as I get used to the way stick works. All hell breaks loose when the arc appears, and it was really jarring me at first.

I'm trying to sit up straighter so my helmet doesn't get coated with yellow crud as quickly. It gets hard to see, really fast.

I will concentrate on keeping the arc short. It seems like it's impossible to push hard enough to put it out. The rod disappears very quickly.

[tweake]

i suspect mike is correct in that your welders welding voltage (not OCV which doesn't really apply to inverters) is to low.

The manual says the OCV is 69 volts.

OCV doesn't mean a whole lot on inverters. OCV is usually more of an advertising gimmick these days.
thats simply due to the electronics having such a big impact.
what actually matters is the run voltage and thats generally preset. its also why good inverters have a "6010 mode" where they pump up the voltage as 6010 requires more run voltage than other rods.

with transformer machines you can predict what the run voltage will be from the OCV due to their predictable VA curve.
however the VA curve on an inverter is like falling off a cliff.

keeping the arc short keeps the required run voltage low. so keep a good tight arc.
good to see your getting it sorted.

[Chips O'Toole]

Today I did fillet welds with stick (6011) for the first time, and while they were not great, things went way better than they had before. I turned the amps down to 40, using 3/32" rod, and I managed to produce something resembling welds. I think that in the past, I had the starting amps set too low and the main amps too high. At 85 amps, all the welds were either flat or craters.

[yachtweld3mm]

HELLO BLOKE,
looks like you are having stick problems like I'm having Mig problems. I'm a veteran of ten minutes mig experience. And I guess you either need an instructor holding your hand or else you do it by the seat of your pants and God willing after countless hours of practice you begin to understand and produce likeable beads.
Here's one of the skippers videos, watch all of them he will show you what to do re the spoons. Pause over the end and flick him back.

You can't expect to produce good beads until you've spent hours and hours at it. I'd suggest you download all of JC's videos on stick welding on one of those little mini hard drive things and watch them to death. I have a little lap top in the shed and listen to him while I weld and watch them while I'm in between duty cycles.

I just started migging and I'm sulking cause nothing is going right and nothing ANY advise given is working, its like THEY ARE LYING, THEY ARE WRONG !....... nah I just need more than 20 minutes practice. But if I'm not an expert by tomorrow night,.....I'll go back to cabinet making!

https://youtu.be/JEFd56ofHos