[getherdone]

Gday all...would appreciate some feedback here.

Attempted welding a 3/8" plate inside the open face of some 1/4" C channel...which gets towards 3/8" at some points.
Lincoln Power Mig 210, 1/8" Excalibur 7018, experimented between 155-165 amps.


During parts of this was having great difficulty with the arc going out. It was pretty consistent...I'd get going, all running well and perhaps an inch or two...don't think I was long arcing...and then out. This happened over and over again.

I played with the hot start and arc force (dig) settings and can't say that seemed too help. Generally kept hart start towards the higher end of the spectrum as was struggling with stuck electrodes when starting earlier in project.

Then other times I could run my full bead....keeping a tight arc, and no issues. The first time around I moved my ground clamp to another part of the work piece....and that seemed to help tremendously....until I moved to another bead on the other end. No heavy rust...just mil...and I even ground that off for the ground to eliminate that as a factor.

I was getting some porosity, and spatter in the areas I had trouble....too hot? But why did I keep losing the arc? Last time I ran some 7018 on a friend's Miller inverter for practically my first time...I had zero issues. I also grabbed a piece of 3/8" scrap...same settings....had zero issues striking an arc/sticking....and arc was not going out either. Move back to work piece....same issue again.

One last thing....on the right side of my display during the problems the readout was over 200amps from memory....even though never set hotter than 165 on left of screen. Can't find anything about this in manual....but looks like this was history of last arc? 200a is more than what the machine is supposed to be able to do!

Appreciate any advice....thanks.

D

[Poland308]

Sounds like your running plenty hot. I tend to run a bit colder around 120-135 amps for 1/8 7018. Moisture laden rods can act funny and drop an arc. Try drying a hand full of them in an oven and see if that batch gives you the same troubles.

[getherdone]

Isn't that a bit cold for 3/8" plate? The door plate for this model suggests 140-160 for 7018 on 1/4" material, 1/8 electrode. And to max her out at 150-170 for 5/16" plate.

Appreciate the thoughts on moisture...I am in a notoriously humid climate. I have some 6011 I could run too for comparison. No rod oven available at the moment...just a new pack of Hobart 7018 to try...which in the usual plastic box does not seem to be in an airtigh tby any means...??

I'm wondering if between running at the top end of the stick range for the machine, high arc force setting, high hot start setting....and a long run of 220 wiring (6awg, circa 150') to the outlet plug, then another say 30-40' of 10awg marine cable extension cord running to the machine...wonder if that gave her some trouble. Will try again tomorrow...want to pay closer attention to the readouts on the machine after/if the arc goes out too.

Had been running some flux core in mig mode prior to with absolutely zero trouble.

D

[Poland308]

You can put them in any oven. 7018 likes less arc force than a 6010. I set my arc force down around 0-4. And I noticed the settings on the 210 mp seem a bit hot. Even on the pre programmed ones. That amperage range is probably based off of the idea that your trying to get full penetration in a single pass. But if your thickness for the channel is only 1/4. I've welded lots of stuff out of channel unless I need to put down a lot of weld fast then I run 7018 3/32 at about 75-85 amps arc force at 3 and hot start at 5-10 amps. If it has those options. You can run the 1/8 7018 at 130 amps and match the arc force and hot start. Give it a try and post a few pics of a finished weld then if there is something else more going on someone may be able to spot it.

[getherdone]

Ok...don't laugh too hard!

Top left of photo, a test bead ran without technical difficulties.

Lower (tight) joint between 3/8" plate and c-channel. This is where I kept grinding out porous welds that has 'snuffed out' after an inch or less time after time.

Had same issue again today on a test....seems like in the the valley of the ground out area rod would go out...or on the original joint. Try on flat like top left...or on scrap metal...tight arc, even dragging the flux across the plate, and no trouble. Today tried around 150-155amps....then gave up and finished projects with some flux core mig which went flawless. Stumped....

On one occasion (same 7018) was like someone blew out the candle...then acr started up again albeit quite weakly.

Any ideas? Thanks....

D

[Otto Nobedder]

That's beginning to sound like a machine issue.

Steve S

[Poland308]

Yeah it is really a batch of bad rod / moisture laden or a machine issue. Try turning the amps way down to like 100 and see what it does. The amp reading may be way off.

[getherdone]

Will try a lower amperage...as you can see there was quite a bit of spatter from the various attempts.

That said...dialing in lower will be out or the range the machine's manual/digital interface suggest for the metal thickness I'm....almost welding.

But...why would this go fine on flat plate (same rod...which is fairly new)...yet snuff out 19 times out of 20 on the joint?

[Edgewalker]

At the college we have all kinds of different welders with different power sources. New machines and old. Inverters, Transformers, Transformer-Rectifiers, you name it. Every 1/8 7018 I have ran was at 120amps DCEP. Seems your a little high on the amps setting to me. Either that or you're not getting full amperage through the rod. Maybe you have a weak connection somewhere. Also like Poland says "Over-exposed 7018". The coating helps stabilize the arc.

[getherdone]

For consideration...from the machine door panel/manual.

High amperage shouldn't cause rod to snuff out though should it? And rods have not been open say a month, always kept in plastic container inside. But...will try some newer rods and see. Trick will be duplicating the same kind of joint as things went smooth on flat plate....

[Poland308]

Sometimes spatter is a sign of long arc. If your running real hot and long arcing then it's possible the electronics might be sensing the fluctuations as a fault and then dropping the arc.

[wheresmejumper]

You are pushing the machine beyond its limit.
its 25% @ 175a max.when you combine arc force and hot start you are running a lot more heat than the presetting you select.
turn it down,and turn the arc force down low or close to zero.you do not want it high running 7018

[getherdone]

OK....So today I tested a few of the same 7018 electrodes on flat plate, and some cheap Chinese Blue Demon 7018. Zero issues with arc extinguishing...

except for one I tried at 125amps as someone recommended...rod was sticking several times on start, poor arc that kept wanting to die out...slag very hard to remove. No good.

Ran one very hot at 160 amps with dig set way high trying to duplicate previous problem...and no problem arose. It actually ran OK, albeit with the spatter you see. Best runs were between 140-150...with the slag peeling off far easier on the hotter runs.

The popcorn ugliness you see in the corner of the C channel was my very first attempt at vertical uphill 7018...z weave pattern. What the hell am I doing wrong there? Guessing I need a gap in plate, or T joint for the weld to cling to?

Thanks again.

[Edgewalker]

For consideration...from the machine door panel/manual.

High amperage shouldn't cause rod to snuff out though should it? And rods have not been open say a month, always kept in plastic container inside. But...will try some newer rods and see. Trick will be duplicating the same kind of joint as things went smooth on flat plate....

That chart is strange. Are you positive those are amps settings? I don't care how thick the base metal is, running 1/8 inch 6013 at 175 amps, as the chart shows, is crazy. My SMAW class is tomorrow. I will get some pics of a 6013 at 175 amps. Is the manual with that chart available online?

[Poland308]

If your just starting out try some 7018 3/32 rod it will make it a little easier to see what your doing beacause you don't have to travel as fast.

[Edgewalker]

Some Tests

IMG_4434.JPG (69.18 KiB) Viewed 2608 times

Bottom Left: 7018 DCEP 120A Fillet Weld
Bottom Right:7018 DCEP 150A Fillet Weld
Left Going up: 7018 DCEP 120A Stringer Vertical Up
Right Going Up: 7018 DCEP 150A Stringer Vertical Up
TopCenter: 6013 DCEN 120A 1F position
Center 2nd down: 6013 DCEN 150A 1F position
Center 3rd Down: 6010 DCEP 90A 1F position
Center 4th Down: 6010 DCEP 120A 1F Psition

[Otto Nobedder]

Just to avoid future confusion, the "F" in "1F" means "fillet". The welds in the center of the picture are actually 1-G (for Groove, even though there's no groove there). Assuming they were done flat... the "1" in 1G.

Steve S

[Edgewalker]

Ah. I was in quite a hurry. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess its like a hardfacing weld. I mostly wanted to makes sure that everyone knew it was welded in the Flat position, not vertical. I know what "G" and "F" stands for.

[Otto Nobedder]

Ah. I was in quite a hurry. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess its like a hardfacing weld. I mostly wanted to makes sure that everyone knew it was welded in the Flat position, not vertical. I know what "G" and "F" stands for.

I wasn't "calling you out." I knew you knew better. I figured fast cell phone fingers. I just wanted to be sure some green hand didn't read that and absorb...

Steve S

[Edgewalker]

No worries. I wanted to point out the spatter on the right where I was running the 7018 hot because the guy had mentioned spatter.

[getherdone]

Got a photo/clue of original issue today!

This time with 6013 overhead, lower amperage. In this picture set at 90 amps...but you can see that the last arc spiked up to 168amps - which exceeds what the machine can do.

PS- For 1/8" 6013 on 10gauge the door chart of machine suggests 75-95amps - and it defaults to 85. I was welding casters to circa 3/16" galvanized tube....and at 85 amps just could not get rod going...stick every time...and if I could get an arc going by wiggling loose it was very, very weak. And yes, those settings in photo of earlier post are taken direct from the Lincoln manual - which is also on the door chart. Is it safe to say.....these numbers a bit higher than average...and perhaps the machine a bit weaker than they suggest? Hell 125 amps on a friend's Miller inverter 280 was perfect for 3/8 plate to 1/4" tube...and i made some great welds with that...for a noob of course.

Move up to 90/95 amps...and this phantom issue began. Later in flat position running more towards 95+ amps had no issues.

Anyone know what the hell is going on?!

Thanks again.

pm210.jpg (49.03 KiB) Viewed 2409 times

[soutthpaw]

I run 5/32 7018 at 160 amps. 120 should be plenty for 1/8th. Arc force at about 2 hot start just about 20% above starting voltage, never ran that model machine though. Set arc force just do the arc doesn't go out when u bury the rod into the puddle. Turn it to where arc does go out and then bump it back up a little. Hot start is the same. Just bump it up to where the rod doesn't stick on your starts. You know 7018 is a drag rod that just rests on the base metal. Don't whip it like 6010.
MAKE SURE YOUR WORK CLAMP IS SECURE TO CLEAN METAL. A bad work clamp connection can cause all the issues you mentioned.

Sent from mobile. Not responsible for Typos

[getherdone]

Perhaps this is part of my trouble...both the default, and my adjusted settings for hot start and arc force have been towards the higher end of the range....mostly because I had great trouble getting arc started when this issue would arise.

Would heavy galvanizing contribute to any of these symptoms at all?

[Poland308]

YES. Galv is a PITA

[JR-Jonas]

One thing you could try is to warm the steel up a little bit usually with the 7018 1/8 I run anywhere between 90-120 amps or another thing you can try is the 7018–1 Rod