How to hold a tight Arc, without Arc Control or Fine Tuning? - Page 2

mbmalone · Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:04 pm

Here are the awful 1/8" Hobart E6010's where I have to gently squeeze the bundle to separate them, in case nobody wants to believe me. I wonder if it would help to soak them in water? As you can see, the flux coating is not chipped. I am just trying to use them up, since they're paid for. I also have a handfull of good rods for the test on the Tombstone.

AKweldshop · Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:13 pm

Mbalone!!!!

Your totally ignoring my request!!

Throw those rods as far as you can throw them, then run out there and throw them even further!!

When they clump together like that, They will not run good!!!!
You have to run higher amperages and they stick, and get porosity!!

You'll never get anywhere with those rods!!

I'll give you the money to buy a new box.

Fleetweld.

mbmalone · Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:23 pm

I am not ignoring. I have a few good rods and I am heading outside to burn them on some scrap, right now. The welder is cold, 90A DCEP and it works best when it's stone cold. These should look good, but it will go downhill fast. Maybe should start at 95A, the Lincoln's can take all that power.

AKweldshop wrote:Mbalone!!!!

Your totally ignoring my request!!

Throw those rods as far as you can throw them, then run out there and throw them even further!!

When they clump together like that, They will not run good!!!!
You have to run higher amperages and they stick, and get porosity!!

You'll never get anywhere with those rods!!

I'll give you the money to buy a new box.

Fleetweld.

mbmalone · Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:03 pm

ok, I ran some beads. Send me the damage ...
I have problems with my eyesight so I have a lot of beads that curve around. I hate it, but have been unable to fix my vision problems. It's easier, with a T-joint. I am old, poor vision, bifocals and everything. I was also outside and always have some sun reflection inside my hood. I think I get reflection off the concrete, too.

Here is the album. I ran Lincoln 5P+ at 90A DCEP and dipped the plate in water several times to cool it. I tried to give the machine adequate time to cool down, because I know it's gets angry and it feels like the juice really slows down. I don't know how to explain it, there is no indicator or warning light.

I tried to upload an Album of the pictures of the beads, so we'll see how that works out.
http://imgur.com/a/IR458

Now, to try some 3/32" Lincoln 7018

nyc7018 · Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:12 pm

Not too bad at all. My first thought is that you should slow down a little.

Notice how your ripples are shaped like: <

They should be more like this: (

Id slow down a little and watch the back of the puddle. That will tell you how your beads are going to look.

If you cant go slower with a straight drag, try to go back and forth a little bit like this: wwwww
But not too dramatic. Keep it tight.

You look like your toes are tied in pretty well and try to overlap the previous bead by just less than half. All in all it looks like youre pretty close to putting out some really nice beads.

Great job documenting. Hopefully the veterans on this forum can help ya a little better than i can

AKweldshop · Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:30 pm

So,
Its running way better right??

mbmalone · Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:09 pm

Yeah, I also noticed the ripples were pointy shaped. I think it becomes less noticeable at 95A, but I really wanted everything to be at 90A so I could rule in or out that amperage choice. At 90A, I'll remember to go slower and try to alter the shape of the bead. My eyes were also really bad today, so I think I am done with any welding. These contacts are dried on my eyes and blurry.

I never tried this wwwww motion, but I am certainly willing to try.

I have my 3/32" 7018 bead pad to upload, but it looks awful. I was not able to see where I was going and was constantly crossing over or running almost directly on top of the previous bead. I just couldn't see any line to follow and this is why the pad looks so thick and fat. Look at my last bead, where I crossed over the previous bead and just gave up. I have a much more difficult time welding outdoors.

This is a different album, but the same plate, with the 7018 beads running across the top of the plate, on the upper right-hand side. The runs are extremely overlapped, I didn't mean to do it. I like running 7018, but today I was welding blind.

http://imgur.com/a/K8YIV

Tomorrow, Hobart 7018 beads just underneath

If I remember correctly, they run better at 90A and the Lincoln's better at 95A (although I used 90A, today)

nyc7018 wrote:Not too bad at all. My first thought is that you should slow down a little.

Notice how your ripples are shaped like: <

They should be more like this: (

Id slow down a little and watch the back of the puddle. That will tell you how your beads are going to look.

If you cant go slower with a straight drag, try to go back and forth a little bit like this: wwwww
But not too dramatic. Keep it tight.

You look like your toes are tied in pretty well and try to overlap the previous bead by just less than half. All in all it looks like youre pretty close to putting out some really nice beads.

Great job documenting. Hopefully the veterans on this forum can help ya a little better than i can

mbmalone · Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:27 pm

That would be a yes.
How can someone even sell such crap Hobart rods?

I found a way to keep them separate from the Lincoln's. You just leave them all stuck together, until you need them.
I think they hurt my welder, like gave it a hernia or something??

I also changed where my ground attaches to my welding table, now I have it attaching on the far left corner. I weld left to right, so I am sort of welding away from the ground and I think it helps. Maybe it somehow pulls the puddle back?

AKweldshop wrote:So,
Its running way better right??

Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:38 pm

mbmalone wrote: I also changed where my ground attaches to my welding table, now I have it attaching on the far left corner. I weld left to right, so I am sort of welding away from the ground and I think it helps. Maybe it somehow pulls the puddle back?

Nope.

But if it works for you...

Steve S

mbmalone · Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:41 pm

Were you using 95A DCEP when you were running your 1/8" 6010 beads?
I was trying 90A today, but thought 95A might have been a better amperage.

The next jump is to 105A which seems way to hot, at least for me.

nyc7018 wrote:here's some more ac/dc tombstone shots.

nyc7018 · Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:55 pm

I was anywhere from 85 to 95 for 3/32 7018 and 1/8 6010.

nyc7018 · Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:47 am

You look like your amps were fine. Just gotta work on manipulating that puddle.

Also, my machine couldve welded completely different from yours even if we were set to the same number. Theyre all a little unique in their own way. Dont be so concerned about the specific number. U got it running and doesnt look like u had any sticking problems, so it seems you were in a good range for the amps.

Just for comparison sake... next time run 3 beads on 85. Then 3 on 90. Then 3 on 95. Or reverse the order. Whatever u want. But that should help u fine tune how u like it set for a certain rod in a certain position.

But dont make yourself crazy about having to be a certain number. Get it in a range youre comfortable with and rock n roll brotha.

Slow and steady wins the race at first. Then when ya get really confident, crank it up and let the machine and rod do their work.

mbmalone · Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:02 am

I'll be wearing my glasses today, so my beads should be somewhat straighter. I don't know how anyone can weld in the direct sun, with their head down. I can put a black cotton shirt over my head, but my glasses fog up in this heat.

I am only going to use the 85, 90 and 95A settings with this welder from now on.

nyc7018 wrote:You look like your amps were fine. Just gotta work on manipulating that puddle.

mbmalone · Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:02 pm

Some old guy told me those Hobart rods just needed a bath, that "old wood was still good"

I'll be running some 6010 test beads, later.

Update: I tried soaking the Hobart E6010 rods today for (10-min) and they did run better and are no longer catching on fire. Scrub-a-Dub-Dub, some Hobart electrodes soaking in a tub.

Maybe I need to start using a timer to keep track of actual arc time, because this tombstone welder seems like it needs a lot of rest, more than what I originally thought. It becomes difficult to get that 1st inch of a weld bead going, otherwise. I kept thinking, come on baby you can do it, give me that power, give me that power. Alright, now we're doing good. Otherwise I just have a big stuck glob wherever I started. It would still stick if I hit a little bump, like it didn't have the power to melt through any extra metal. I'm sure it's just me. I can't wait to see how they do things in Alaska this weekend when a pro takes a shot at making perfect beads without having ARC Control. Padding Beads seems to put a hurt'in on this welder when running on DC.

AKweldshop wrote:My friend,
Hobart rods are junk to begin with, except a few certain alloy rods.
Please,
Head to a local welding store, and buy some premium Lincoln fleet wood rods.
I guarantee you will be amazed.

Those rods you have are old and dried out.

That's my advice for you right now.

mbmalone · Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:12 pm

I ran those 6010 beads at 85, 90 and 95A. You were right, 90A was the best in the flat position. @95A I began seeing a noticeable increase in splatter. I could run at 85A, but I just didn't like it.

I'll just have to work on my manipulation technique.

nyc7018 wrote:You look like your amps were fine. Just gotta work on manipulating that puddle.

Just for comparison sake... next time run 3 beads on 85. Then 3 on 90. Then 3 on 95. Or reverse the order. Whatever u want. But that should help u fine tune how u like it set for a certain rod in a certain position.

AKweldshop · Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:54 pm

Careful mate, quite the accusation calling me a pro....

I'll let the pics say if I'm a pro or not.

Definitly within the week.

mbmalone · Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:59 pm

If it doesn't matter on the left or the right, I'm going to return my ground to the right side of the table.
Fewer sparks on that protective insulation than having it running the length of the table.

Otto Nobedder wrote:
mbmalone wrote: I also changed where my ground attaches to my welding table, now I have it attaching on the far left corner. I weld left to right, so I am sort of welding away from the ground and I think it helps. Maybe it somehow pulls the puddle back?
Nope.

But if it works for you...

Steve S

mbmalone · Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:47 pm

My beads were not working out today the way I wanted.

Check out the amperage changes 85A first patch, then 90A and finally 95A runs at the end. All Hobart 6010, which had been drowned and shaken dry. I dipped the pad a few times, but the old lincoln was giving me some troubles, felt like the juice was being pinched off. Maybe that's just how they are.

I was really scratching my head on the first run at 90A (the 2nd patch). For sure I had dipped the plate and the welder had rested a bit. It looked like 7018 or something, except for the troubled start. I've been having a lot of trouble with my starts. After rods get stuck a couple of times, how am I supposed to make a decent bead on top of that?

95A was popping too much, but I had a least one good run in there.

I can't seem to be able to keep my runs from flowing together.

http://imgur.com/a/9UGcG

AKweldshop wrote:Careful mate, quite the accusation calling me a pro....

I'll let the pics say if I'm a pro or not.

Definitly within the week.

AKweldshop · Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:00 am

Yep,
I think you need a good welder....

Best advice I know.

I'll see how this machine performs....

I'll give it a torture test...

nyc7018 · Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:58 am

Looks a lot better. You had some nice ones in there and it looks like you slowed down. Youre making good progress keep it up
Stay as consistent as possible and watch that puddle. You stayed a lot straighter too.
Try some fillets or laps with 6010

mbmalone · Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:51 pm

I think the rows were straighter because they were shorter runs and I was wearing my glasses. I will be running more today. The Hobart rods suck, but I have more of them. I think they run better after being dipped in the cooling bucket, but perhaps not while they are in the stinger.

I am going to try to keep these rods less overlapped. I had a few good runs, but when you overlapp them, you cover up the good ones. I found out my first run on the edge of the plate is better at 85A, maybe two rows then bump it up to 90A for the rest. I'm looking for a better way of keeping up with actual arc time. I also think the lincoln sitting in the direct sunlight subtracts from the duty cycle. How can I run beads when I have to keep walking away from the welder to let it rest?

Oh well, it's what I've got. Maybe if I open the case and place a box fan, run it like that. It is easier for me to see when running fillets on T's so I haven't been working on those. I actually think this bead padding might be the most difficult in the flat position. I never ran laps, so I don't know any tricks. I was going to run some vertical beads. I don't know if this welder can really weld vertically, unless I welded down. I did want to try that, for fixing some improper fitups with gaps, but I never tried it. I just heard to use higher heat and travel quickly straight down. Only works with 6010/6011.

nyc7018 wrote:Looks a lot better. You had some nice ones in there and it looks like you slowed down. Youre making good progress keep it up
Stay as consistent as possible and watch that puddle. You stayed a lot straighter too.
Try some fillets or laps with 6010

AKweldshop · Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:17 pm

I was starting to get leery of your welder having to rest a lot...
http://search.tb.ask.com/search/redirec ... D%3D&ord=0&
But I looked up the specs.
20% duty cycle, at 125 amps....

Pretty wimpy.

~John

mbmalone · Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:30 pm

It's 20% duty cycle no matter what amperage setting, but people claim that in actuality, the duty cycle is much higher. I'm only using 90A I'm chipping and scrubbing and taking pictures and dipping and walking away and it still doesn't run like it did on that first bead and just puttering out, especially at the beginning which is the toughest. I'd like to be able to test it, although that wouldn't change anything. 3/32" 7018 seems to run well on this machine at 95A, though. I can't seem to burn a 14in electrode at 105A, but if the plate is already hot 95A works pretty good. I don't have infinite amperage adjustment. I wish I had a Lincoln IdealArc 250 like this.

AKweldshop wrote:I was starting to get leery of your welder having to rest a lot...
http://search.tb.ask.com/search/redirec ... D%3D&ord=0&
But I looked up the specs.
20% duty cycle, at 125 amps....

Pretty wimpy.

~John

MinnesotaDave · Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:30 pm

AKweldshop wrote:I was starting to get leery of your welder having to rest a lot...
http://search.tb.ask.com/search/redirec ... D%3D&ord=0&
But I looked up the specs.
20% duty cycle, at 125 amps....

Pretty wimpy.

~John

Yeah those little guys get hot real fast on DC.

But on AC you can run a real long time around 125-135 amps.

My first welding/fab job was for a really cheap guy, only welder there was a tombstone and I ran it hard in the mid ranges.

I've had two since then and found them to be the same.

My AC/DC century buzz box got real hot on DC but was fine on AC. Even popped one of the diodes running on DC for what seemed like a reasonable time to me.

mbmalone · Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:43 pm

That's exactly what I found out and my beads suffer badly. I never used it on AC, but I'll remember about the AC if I have to do a big project. I have to perfect my DC welding skills so I can get a job and move to Alaska and wilderness.

MinnesotaDave wrote:
Yeah those little guys get hot real fast on DC.

But on AC you can run a real long time around 125-135 amps..