[DylanWelds]

I still don't seem to understand the difference between welding stick soft and Stick crisp. If there's anyone with a better understanding who can explain it to me that would be awesome. I've been messing around with these settings lately as well as arc force (I still don't understand arc force very well either) but still can't seem to find out how I like my machine set best.

[Superiorwelding]

To start watch this video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhRWnL5 ... r_embedded
-Jonathan

[DylanWelds]

Good stuff. I looked a bit on the subject and did find this video before but I still feel confused

[Superiorwelding]

I will try to explain the simplest I can. The crisp setting is more for a cellulous rod like 6010. It has a lot more penetration and a rougher arc characteristic. The soft setting would be used for low hydrogen rod like the 7018. This gives less penetration and a smoother arc, giving you a nice bead that you can use to stack beads or metal. There is more to it but that is the short of it.
To learn the difference, get some 6010 and 7018 and run both settings and you will see the different characteristics.
Hope this helps or are you wanting a deeper answer?
-Jonathan

[MinnesotaDave]

Good stuff. I looked a bit on the subject and did find this video before but I still feel confused

Try this article: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/ar ... le108.html

The quick version:

Normal transformer stick welder: (first chart)
long arc raises voltage, lowers amps
short arc lowers voltage, increases amps

Many inverter stick welders: (third chart)
Amps stays the same as arc length (voltage) changes.
Arc force changes that and allows the increased amps as you shorten the arc.

[DylanWelds]

Thank you both. Awesome article. I'll be staying late after work this week too hopefully get some nice looking welds in.

[AKweldshop]

Here's my 2 cents....

I have a Miller Maxstar 200sd....

I was using it to do some welding, with a 1/8 8010, set at 70amps 100% dig.

Those digital machines show the amperage fluctuations....

I had my boss watch the screen while I was welding.

And that thing was all over the place, down to 50amps, up to 174amps!!

Up and down, in the whipping and pausing.....

I need to make a video of it.

But that's another day.

As to the Lincoln dig, that is measured as positive and negative.... Positive 9.5 to negative 9.5....

And My Lincoln Invertec 250.
Pics

IMG_1742.JPG (56.25 KiB) Viewed 18610 times

IMG_1691.JPG (82.75 KiB) Viewed 18610 times

When I run a 7018, I mess with these 4 settings.

Soft and Crisp, positive and negative arc control.

Soft arc is more smooth, wets out good, more runny puddle.

Crisp arc with 7018 is more forceful, sorta pushes more, seems more digging....

I have used several machines with dig, and I like dig when welding out of position, or overhead.

Its more a preference thing.

Try it.

Mess with high arc force, soft and crisp at different amperages.

You'll find a sweet spot.

This is a great topic, we need to find out what all you guys prefer.

~John

[MinnesotaDave]

Hey John, since you have a digital version - try setting dig to zero and see how stable the readings are.

If it follows chart 3 of the article, it should stay pretty constant. Maybe a whip and pause would be really difficult like that?

Could be why my maxstar 150s does not like to long arc.
Interesting side note: it also won't do scratch start tig. Arc extinguishes in about a second - just turns off.

[DylanWelds]

I messed around a bit today, didn't have a ton of welds to do. Welded a bunch of supports for pipe on one of the ships. Had my arc force set to "-4" which I assume would translate to 30%. Did some nice looking overhead and vertical welds with 3/32 7018. I had a 5g field weld also on 3 inch pipe; didn't come out looking too pretty though.. hard to make a good weld when you have to weld half of it with a mirror while standing on a ladder and can barely fit your hood where it needs to be to see. I really like how 7018 runs with less arc force though. I'll do some coupons tomorrow and maybe put some pics up. I just got a new hood in the mail today, Jackson Balder BH3, can't wait to use it tomorrow

[AKweldshop]

What machine do you have???

Nice helmet BTW,

But to expensive for an old farm boy.

~John

[Arizona SA200]

On this "soft or crisp or dig" function I have to disagree with Jodi on the video that was posted. Sorry Jodi if you read this but let me explain. The function you are referring to "dig" or what ever the MFG calls it adjusts the amount of voltage behind the current. It does not magically increase or decrease amperage it does this with voltage. The easiest way that I can explain it would be water. I know I may have lost some of you but keep reading. Its like water pressure and water volume. The water pressure is the voltage and the volume is the amperage. If you need to fill up a pool you need more volume and if you want to blast the mud off of your truck you need more pressure. It comes down to figuring out the correct amperage AND voltage to run a certain type of rod. 6010 needs to be run on the higher arc force side hence higher voltage. 7018 runs better on the buttery side hence less voltage. Now if I want to dig a hole in my back yard using only water, what would I choose, high volume or high pressure? Pressure right, because it digs like sticking that pressure washer wand in the dirt. If i go to fill up the hole I just dug can I use the pressure washer? I would be better off with the garden hose right? This also has to do with the amount of weld spatter that is produced. Less voltage less spatter more voltage more spatter. With all of that somewhat explained what about long arc VS short arc. Short arc increases amperage and decreases voltage kinda like taking that pressure washer wand and shoving it deep in to the dirt. Long arc increases voltage but decreases amperage just like taking that same pressure washing wand and holding it a foot over the dirt and spraying mud all over the place. I hope this helps. If you have more questions PM me or post here I'll keep an eye on this one.

[MinnesotaDave]

On this "soft or crisp or dig" function I have to disagree with Jodi on the video that was posted. Sorry Jodi if you read this but let me explain. The function you are referring to "dig" or what ever the MFG calls it adjusts the amount of voltage behind the current. It does not magically increase or decrease amperage it does this with voltage.

I would respectfully disagree. Miller says that the machine senses the voltage dropping as the welder shortens the arc and responds by increasing the amperage.

Description

image.jpg (45.5 KiB) Viewed 13249 times

Note the dig settings increasing amps as voltage decreases (operator shortening the arc).

image.jpg (88.36 KiB) Viewed 13249 times

[MinnesotaDave]

Lincoln describes the same type of theory.

image.jpg (24.49 KiB) Viewed 13242 times

[AKweldshop]

Hey John, since you have a digital version - try setting dig to zero and see how stable the readings are.

If it follows chart 3 of the article, it should stay pretty constant. Maybe a whip and pause would be really difficult like that?

Could be why my maxstar 150s does not like to long arc.
Interesting side note: it also won't do scratch start tig. Arc extinguishes in about a second - just turns off.

Dave,

I was using my Maxstar today.

I set it on 140amps, 0% dig.

Ran a bead with 1/8 7018, long arcing it, and ramming it in there.... +- 2amps

Than left it on 140amps, but set the dig at 100%.

Ran the same bead, long arcing it, and ramming it in there. +- 10amps.

But when you stick the rod, it goes up to 200amps.

Same with 8010.

I was wrong about the 174amps....

But, I like DIG!!!

~John

[MinnesotaDave]

Hey John, I bought that v250-s I emailed you about.
It was near new condition and included 360 feet of 1/0 cable for $500 - could not pass that up

I know what you mean about liking the inverter adjustability now. Found a nice setting for 1/8" 7018 on it that mimics my Airco 300 nicely

It welds 7018 a little better than my miller maxstar 150s - but they are fairly close.
Maxstar won't run red brick 6010 very well vertical. It's ok flat and horizontal but the arc pops out sometimes.

The v-250s was able to be dialed in on them fine though.
And it ran 3/16" 6013 great at 200 amps!

[AKweldshop]

Dave,

Your gonna love that welder.

He pretty much gave it to you.

You owe me one.

That was supposed to be my machine.

I'd of driven down there to but it for $500.

Man!!!

[Arizona SA200]

Thanks For the info Minnesota. I wasn't aware that some of the newer machines had this ability. I honestly don't do much reading about the newer stuff. I do believe that when you adjust the arc force you still increase/decrease the voltage behind the current. The main reason that the smaller inverters don't run 6010 well is because they don't have the OCV's to run them so they stick. What keeps the electrode lit is voltage not amperage.

[noddybrian]

I agree OCV has a big effect on running certain rods - but I also believe some machines can try & compensate for arc length - I'm not going to attempt to explain how & it's not just new ones - I had a Kemppi 450 DC arc welder from around the mid to late 80's it was a transformer machine but the output is controlled electronically & can be used for Tig - that thing was almost impossible to get a rod to stick - you could piece metal trying - it was always the welder used to take tests with - quite a few people I knew borrowed it to do their coded tests with.

[MinnesotaDave]

Dave,

Your gonna love that welder.

He pretty much gave it to you.

You owe me one.

That was supposed to be my machine.

I'd of driven down there to but it for $500.

Man!!!

You ain't kidding about giving it to me! Ad was only one sentence and no picture. $500 obo.
Turned out to be a nice pipeliner gentlemen who got tired of having a machine around that he didn't use.
I told him I usually like to argue price but couldn't see any point to it and handed him the cash.
Run about 5 hours on it so far, easy machine to weld with - foot control gets here today so I can start using it for tig too.
....oh and he lives two hours away, but was going to be in my town so he brought it to me as well......

...where is the "duck and hide my face" smiley face....

[AKweldshop]

Man!!!

What a deal!

I gave $724 for mine bare machine.

[MinnesotaDave]

Man!!!

What a deal!

I gave $724 for mine bare machine.

Worth it from what I've seen so far

[AKweldshop]

Oh yeah,

But yours made mine look bad!!

Let's see your machine Dave.

[MinnesotaDave]

Checked the duty cycle against my Dialarc 250 AC/DC and it is actually a little better, from an inverter....wow

360' cables 1/0

Cables

image.jpg (69.41 KiB) Viewed 13215 times

Basic machine

Machine close

image.jpg (51.86 KiB) Viewed 13215 times

A little dusty - but still the cleanest machine in the shop

Machine

image.jpg (57.17 KiB) Viewed 13215 times

[wheresmejumper]

There is a nice solid throw to those lincoln power switches, not common on an inverter.
you know youre turning on something capable when she clunks

[AKweldshop]

There is a nice solid throw to those lincoln power switches, not common on an inverter.
you know youre turning on something capable when she clunks

Your right there.
My square wave 175 did that, you had to use both hands to turn it on.

Very high quality knobs, dials, and switches on these Lincolns.


Dave,

That is one nice machine, and I'm sure it will out last you.
Everyone says these inverter's aren't tough, well, that's because of all the digital stuff, memory and settings.
These Invertecs have no junk on them.
Solid value, and great performance....

I love mine, and wouldn't sell it for anything, well, maybe an Invertec 350pro

~John