[chadwarden]

Holy batman am I frustrated these days. Been working on open root stick with 6010s for a few weeks with very little progress. I know restarts without a grinder for open root is very possible but for some damn reason I can't do it. When I do the bury rod technique for horizontal, the rod always ends up snuffing out before I use up the rod. I'm pretty sure the problems are due to poor technique rather than a problem with the machine. And I have no idea where to start for vertical up open roots. Is the bury rod technique absolutely necessary? What should my amps be if I have a land of 2mm and a gap of 2mm to 2.5mm? What techniques should I be using? HELP!

[Otto Nobedder]

I've always done this with 1/8" (3mm) rod or bigger, but, generally, if you're snuffing out the rod, you need more amps... If you're poking through, you either need less amperage or less pressure. I assume you're using 3/32" (2.25mm) rod?

When it's "just so", almost all the sparks fly inside the pipe, and it sounds like a hive of angry bees are in the pipe. Also, when it's "just so", it works almost identical uphill as down. For me, it took some experimentation and critique, but once I got it... I can "show off" by raising my hood and talking to you (not advised on a test or critical weld) without breaking the arc.

I suggest you keep working with the "bury-rod" method... Once it comes to you, it is easier than a "whip and pause" for root passes, as the rod does all the work for you and you only have to hold it right.

Steve S

[Vince51]

Open root 6010 is hard to explain without a video. I like using a circular motion in the keyhole. Helps break down the landings evenly and prevents the rod from finger nailing. Watch for the flame shooting through the keyhole and keep a steady travel speed. If the keyhole gets to big (2 rod diameters) dont panic just circle out on the bevel more and speed up or STOP. I hardly ever whip. Overhead roots you want the keyhole to stay small and all sparks should go through. 1/8" rod should run good from 70 to 80 amps. 1/8" gap and landing. Grind a ramp on your tacks. Restart about a cm behind your stops. If your using a newer machine increasing the arc force setting will help you keep the arc going. Turn arc force all the way down for low hydrogen rods tho. Hope this helps.

Vince. P.s. Lincoln 5p+ is my preference of rod.

[chadwarden]

I've always done this with 1/8" (3mm) rod or bigger, but, generally, if you're snuffing out the rod, you need more amps... If you're poking through, you either need less amperage or less pressure. I assume you're using 3/32" (2.25mm) rod?

When it's "just so", almost all the sparks fly inside the pipe, and it sounds like a hive of angry bees are in the pipe. Also, when it's "just so", it works almost identical uphill as down. For me, it took some experimentation and critique, but once I got it... I can "show off" by raising my hood and talking to you (not advised on a test or critical weld) without breaking the arc.

I suggest you keep working with the "bury-rod" method... Once it comes to you, it is easier than a "whip and pause" for root passes, as the rod does all the work for you and you only have to hold it right.

Steve S

When you say "less pressure", you mean don't push in as hard, right? The bury arc method seems near impossible for vertical up. How the hell do you do it? I think doing some whip and pause/weaving technique and waiting for the metal to spray out will work better for me. I just think it'd really help to see that puddle.

[Otto Nobedder]

This may not be the method for you.

We all do it different.

For me, a 1/8" 6010 at 105A will burn just fine up or down.

Yes, 105 is outside the recommendations on the side of the can. Those rec.s have no bearing on the performance of my weld.

I've a pic of a root done that way on here somewhere. I can find it, if you like.

Steve S.

[italianwelder]

Personally, the gap must be 'according to the thickness of the tube or plate that is, the position of the welder and torch / rod and important, I use a pressure ranging from a minimum of 12 to a maximum of 15 liters / min, the rod should be used according to the diameter / thickness you are welding, be patient and take your time in tig welding must not be in a hurry, the amp is always dependent on the thickness and material that uses 105 Amp and not 'for all species if balances in the first pass a pipe 2 "or 1"

Sorry 4 my bad language i hope u have undestand

Bye
Ciao

[Otto Nobedder]

I've got to resize the pic I mentioned in my last post...

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

Awright... Tired of trying to resize, so I hosted it...



Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

That's the inside of a 6010 open root, 1/8" gap, 1/8" rod, at 105A, 10 " sch. 80. These aren't normally buffed off like this, but I did it for a pic for another forum.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

Forgot the host will resize for me:



That should be a better size.

Steve S

[chadwarden]

Very nice back bead. Was this up or downhill? Did you use a grinder on your restarts? And this was 105 amps?

[Otto Nobedder]

105A DCEN. This was downhill, but at that amperage, the rod doesn't care. Uphill results actually seem to have slightly more internal reinforcement, and progress slightly slower. I say "seem" because I'm not sure if it's real or perception.

This pipe had six tacks, all feathered each end, so I could start and stop mid-tack. I dress the end of every run with a grinder, but with the tack spacing, "feathering" wasn't needed after initially dressing the tacks.

You'll see a little bunching on the left side of the 6:00 tack, where my visibility was worst and I hald a bit long.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

Whoops.

This pipe had four 1" tacks, not six.

You can spot one at 9:00, where I didn't pause long enough landing or leaving, showing a little dimple in the root above and below the tack.

I've done similar on 14" and 16" pipe with 5/32 6010 run at 155A.

The method is not for everyone, it's just one more way to skin this cat.

Steve S

[chadwarden]

All right yall. I think I've got the hang of open root stick now. After a few more weeks it should be near perfect. I think my problem was staying too long in one spot after hearing the sound of penetration. When it's set hot enough, you can just shove that rod in and move along. The trick is to not stop or else that's how you get stuck.

[Otto Nobedder]

Yep, it sounds like everything "clicked", and now it's a matter of patience and practice.

Once you get the bead you want, the only tricky spots are transitions into and off of tacks, and even these become easy with practice. I feather both the landing and leaving side of each tack with a grinder, and I like the ends to be paper-thin. I didn't do this in the pic I posted because of the temporary nature of what I was building (but I could take pics of that without violating "confidentiality"... go figure), so the transitions to the tacks are not all clean. Some came out okay, anyway, supporting Jody's argument for only feathering starts, but I'll take the extra few minutes with the grinder since stick on pipe is not my all-day-every-day gig.

Steve S

[ONEDEADLYVENOM]

Love the various tips and troubleshooting help.

I don't know how relevant this may be, but back in my day we u used 7010 fleet rods for root passes. Then filler and cap with either 6013 or 7018 rods, root passes and filler and capping we did mostly uphill, but if we did downhill 7013,6010 and 6013 were the more go to rods.

[65chevyc20]

this might be a stupid question but I will ask anyway: I like running my roots at 3/32" gap and land, 1/8" 6010 70-75 amps. I've only welded pipe in class and my root turns out pretty decent with those settings. I know that's preference but would it be beneficial of me to try and learn to run it w/ a 1/8" gap/land as well? 1/8" seems to be more of what you would come across in real world.

[Otto Nobedder]

this might be a stupid question but I will ask anyway: I like running my roots at 3/32" gap and land, 1/8" 6010 70-75 amps. I've only welded pipe in class and my root turns out pretty decent with those settings. I know that's preference but would it be beneficial of me to try and learn to run it w/ a 1/8" gap/land as well? 1/8" seems to be more of what you would come across in real world.

Absolutely wise to learn as many combinations as possible. Out of classroom, no two fits may be alike. You may find a 1/4" gap at the bottom and 1/16" on top.

Steve S.

[AKweldshop]

Forgot the host will resize for me:



That should be a better size.

Steve S

What was your root gap and land? Thanks John

[Otto Nobedder]

John,

Was 1/8" gap (minus tack shrinkage, so "tight"), 3/32" land on sch.80.

Steve S.

[AKweldshop]

Is that the gap and land you use for most everything??
Thanks for sharing, John

[Otto Nobedder]

Never did stick pipe below 4" sch. 80 or 6" sch. 40, but seems to work there and heavier. The "bury-rod" root requires a good fit, though. If the gap exceeds the rod, you're back to "whip and pause" with too much heat.

Steve S.

[AKweldshop]

Never did stick pipe below 4" sch. 80 or 6" sch. 40, but seems to work there and heavier. The "bury-rod" root requires a good fit, though. If the gap exceeds the rod, you're back to "whip and pause" with too much heat.

Steve S.

So you don't stick root 2 in sced 80 pipe ?
Most guys tig it?
Thanks again John

[Otto Nobedder]

To my knowledge, stick root in 2" is quite common. I've just never done it and can't speak to it...

Steve S

[65chevyc20]

ima try the 1/8" tonite and see how that goes. this forum and jodys videos are the only real guides I have since our "professors" are kinda worthless. anywho, this guy came in last week that I'm assume was a co-worker of our teacher. He was going around showing everyone how to weld open roots 'the right way'. He got to my station and was like 'oh your running too hot and that's why your root looks bad'. I was thinking alright asshole then show me hows its done. He starts his bead and tries to show me his whip and pause J-weave something rather and makes a key hole so big I had to go and recut my pipe. I was like "wtf man; you waltzed over here to criticize me and then you blew a hole through my shit".