[JohnMc]

So I have been watching and reading a lot of welder reviews. Seems that the first thing that everyone is concerned about is will it run 6010. This is usually fallowed by the advice to just run 6011 if you're machine will not run 6010. Is there any major advantage to 6010 over 6011? Not going to be doing any kind of code work. Is 6010 something you really need?

[Homemade]

:popcorn I too am interested in the major difference.

[weldin mike 27]

These are the cellulose based rods. A fast freeze type. The only difference I am aware of is that 6011 have ingredients in the flux to make the arc stable on AC. The constant switching of polarity makes it hard to keep the arc lit. In terms of needing a cellulose rod.... Handy for burning through rust and paint. Apart from the high penetration characteristics, it's not really needed. They are very rare in Australia, I would venture that a lot of welders would not even know what they are. We mainly use 6012/3 and 7014 and 16s over here.

Best, Mick.

[Poland308]

These are the cellulose based rods. A fast freeze type. The only difference I am aware of is that 6011 have ingredients in the flux to make the arc stable on AC. The constant switching of polarity makes it hard to keep the arc lit. In terms of needing a cellulose rod.... Handy for burning through rust and paint. Apart from the high penetration characteristics, it's not really needed. They are very rare in Australia, I would venture that a lot of welders would not even know what they are. We mainly use 6012/3 and 7014 and 16s over here.

Best, Mick.

That’s the only difference. It helps keep the arc going when the voltage crosses the 0 volts part of the sine wave. It leaves vaporized particles in the gas cloud that keep the arc from dropping out. 6010 needs a fairly high open circuit voltage to run well. I believe 30 volts is kind of a low end starting point on DC.

[Oscar]

I haven't ran them back-to-back recently, but on a good capable machine, I've read that 6010 will run "smoother" than 6011, even when both on DC.

[tweake]

So I have been watching and reading a lot of welder reviews. Seems that the first thing that everyone is concerned about is will it run 6010. This is usually fallowed by the advice to just run 6011 if you're machine will not run 6010. Is there any major advantage to 6010 over 6011? Not going to be doing any kind of code work. Is 6010 something you really need?

do you need 6010, no. primarily its used in pipe work.
from what i have seen written is that 6010 runs smoother. might be important with critical pipe work but normal stuff it will not matter much.

6010 requires quite a high run voltage. 6011 requires a bit less. i say run voltage not OCV because OCV doesn't apply that much to inverter machines. what actually matters is the voltage the machine can supply when the arc is lit. to low and it will keep going out. with inverters they will have a 6010 mode or a cel (cellulose) mode.
some inverters will not run either.

[tweake]

They are very rare in Australia, I would venture that a lot of welders would not even know what they are. We mainly use 6012/3 and 7014 and 16s over here.

Best, Mick.

looks like WIA still have 6011. probably still have them due to the number of buzz boxes still kicking around.
6010 is hard to find. i got a pack in for testing welders with.
i suspect 6010 has gone as its mostly 7016 for root passes now.

[Coldman]

Cellulose rods are not recognised as a consumable in Australian Standards 1554 (structural), 4041 (pressure pipe) and 1796 (certification) because of their hydrogen content.
They are still used by large contractors for infrastructure or pipelines where they have procedures qualified for stovepipe root passes where they use 5P or better 6010 rods. 6011 has a reputation for worm holing by these guys and are not used. 6011 used mostly on low end farm/maintenance applications.

7016 is predominant including root passes for two reasons:
1. Low hydrogen.
2. It's hard to be competent to do root passes so if you do certify, it also means you can do any other rod with confidence.

NZ would be the same as us given our standards are mostly the same. (For welding). [emoji16]

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[tweake]

Cellulose rods are not recognised as a consumable in Australian Standards 1554 (structural), 4041 (pressure pipe) and 1796 (certification) because of their hydrogen content.
They are still used by large contractors for infrastructure or pipelines where they have procedures qualified for stovepipe root passes where they use 5P or better 6010 rods. 6011 has a reputation for worm holing by these guys and are not used. 6011 used mostly on low end farm/maintenance applications.

7016 is predominant including root passes for two reasons:
1. Low hydrogen.
2. It's hard to be competent to do root passes so if you do certify, it also means you can do any other rod with confidence.

NZ would be the same as us given our standards are mostly the same. (For welding). [emoji16]

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thats good to know.
i've only done a little with 7016 but managed to do an ok (not xray) open root uphill. i should get back and try some more.

[JohnMc]

So sounds like this is mostly a case of the keyboard experts watching one to many pipeline videos on YouTube and thinking if that is what they use then that is what they must use.

[Coldman]

6010 are great rods and certainly have their place. Millions of pipe welds done with them and you rarely hear of problems.

The point is that all welds are going to fail given enough time. We try with all our procedures and processes to extend that time to outlast the structure or application life.
Hydrogen cracking is one of the biggest contributors to early weld failure and if we can eliminate hydrogen we extend the service life of the weld.
Same goes for rutile rods too.

Personally I think that much of the hydrogen in a 6010 root pass is released by the heat of subsequent passes but there's not much supporting report of this.

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[MinnesotaDave]

Personally I think that much of the hydrogen in a 6010 root pass is released by the heat of subsequent passes but there's not much supporting report of this.

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I've read some well written documents that support what you say.

Also, one person reported a weld procedure he operates under specified the max length of time between beads to ensure enough heat for the hydrogen to migrate out.

Since hydrogen's speed traveling through steel increases with higher temp, this would make sense.

[tweake]

So sounds like this is mostly a case of the keyboard experts watching one to many pipeline videos on YouTube and thinking if that is what they use then that is what they must use.

guilty
but also keep in mind many use 6011 for repair work. aka "farm rod". a lot of people want to do good welding and use the best they can. so if the best is done with 6010 then they want to use it.

[Homemade]

I understand the higher iron powder content in the flux to keep the arc lit for ac machines to run 6011.
The question is, does that have a negative affect in the weld?
What makes 6010 more ideal in the pipe world?
Why not just run 6011 on ac or dc and get rid of the 6010 if there is no difference in weld quality or strength?
What makes 6010 the better of the two and 6011 is only used when 6010 won’t work (ac only machines).

Not trying to add to the 6010/6011 is no good and go with 7016 debate, because there are still tons of 6010/11 burned every day.

[MinnesotaDave]

I understand the higher iron powder content in the flux to keep the arc lit for ac machines to run 6011.

That is incorrect, 6011 is cellulose-potassium, and 6010 is cellulose-sodium.

The potassium is the ingredient that allows for AC operation.

"Arc Stabilizers - Air is not sufficiently conductive to maintain a stable arc, so it becomes necessary to add coating ingredients that will provide a conductive path for the flow of current. This is particularly true when welding with alternating current. Stabilizing materials are titanium compounds, potassium compounds, and calcium compounds."

electrode composition chart.JPG (57 KiB) Viewed 15738 times

[Oscar]

I understand the higher iron powder content in the flux to keep the arc lit for ac machines to run 6011.
The question is, does that have a negative affect in the weld?
What makes 6010 more ideal in the pipe world?
Why not just run 6011 on ac or dc and get rid of the 6010 if there is no difference in weld quality or strength?
What makes 6010 the better of the two and 6011 is only used when 6010 won’t work (ac only machines).

Not trying to add to the 6010/6011 is no good and go with 7016 debate, because there are still tons of 6010/11 burned every day.

I wondered the same thing, and most of the sources go back to what MinnesotaDave said regarding the sodium/potassium difference in the flux. So I had given up, lol. I found some really good, very technical articles regarding the differences:

TWI Global PDF

Physics - Stack Exchange PDF

Russian Paper PDF

The Fabricator PDF

Best answer (from The Fabricator article):

I have found, and think most welders will agree, that 6010 runs more smoothly. The slag chips off better than 6011, and this is one reason it is used more often than 6011 in root passes on pipes.

[RollOutWelding]

When burning 6011 has anyone else had a problem with the rod burning like crap towards the back half to the last quarter of the rod? Never had that problem with 5p+. Could it be that the 6011 i've been trying are the home depot 6011?

[Oscar]

When burning 6011 has anyone else had a problem with the rod burning like crap towards the back half to the last quarter of the rod? Never had that problem with 5p+. Could it be that the 6011 i've been trying are the home depot 6011?

Yea I have some old Home Depot Lincoln 6011 and it does seem to run just a bit weird compared to brand new 6011. Perhaps dried out too much, I dunno.

[sbaker56]

I'd really like to try some 7016 honestly, just not a common rod here in the states though.

There are a number of reasons why a 6010 capable machine might be preferable such as the fact that 6011 tends to run better on a 6010 friendly machine, of the two 6010 does tend to be smoother burning, or that 6010 is simply the established standard when a cellulose rod is called for in code and were you to get caught doing code work with a 6011 no amount of arguing "but they're the same thing" is going to save your butt.

Aside from that however there is one big reason I prefer 6010. While some experienced stick welders might already know this, for those who don't, all rods with the same AWS designation are NOT the same, if you give me 5 different brands of 7018, I'll be able to tell without even looking at the rods themselves and if I've ran them before I'll probably even be able to guess which brand each rod the same goes for 6010 and 6011 A Lincoln 6010 5p+, 6010 5p and Lincoln 6011 are NOT the same rods, they might be similar, but they're not identical or in my opinion the same quality. I've yet to find a 6011 OR 6010 that ran like a Lincoln 5p+.

Generally I would say if 6010 capability is going to particularly matter to you then you'll already know why it will. If you don't already have feelings on the subject and a favorite brand of 6010 then I wouldn't really worry about it.

[Poland308]

When burning 6011 has anyone else had a problem with the rod burning like crap towards the back half to the last quarter of the rod? Never had that problem with 5p+. Could it be that the 6011 i've been trying are the home depot 6011?

With any rod as you burn it the remainder gets hot from resistance. Ss rod is especially susceptible to this. As the rod gets hot it starts to cook off the remaining flux. If it gets hot enough it will burn the flux so that by the time your welding with that part of the rod the flux is basically burnt up and no good.

[Timberjack]

Im not a pipe welder but have a 85 year old friend that has retired from welding . he told me that years ago they were not allowed to use the last 4 or5 inches of a rod . something about the rod metal or flux being burned up.