Welding Tips and Tricks

Can a Chinese 26 Flexhead torch really get 250 amps on DC ?

I ordered this flexhead torch, just the head, about 2 months ago...the tracking was horrendous and I will most likely never buy another product from the company again. It was off Amazon.

So, here's my question...lately there's a number of Wuhan torch heads that claim to get 250 amps on a 26. But CK Worldwide only claim their 26 torches get 200 amps. Also, HTP America has a Wuhan torch head for about the same price ($12-$13), which I was tempted to get and maybe I should have, but they claim 200 amps also...I could have gotten it in a few days.

Can a Chinese torch head really get an extra 50 amps, or is this just wishful thinking and they most likely get 200 amps, or can reliably run 200 amps for extended periods of time. I know there are people here (hi cj) that claim to get 200 amps out of their CK Worldwide 17 torches, and I do think it's probably possible. But what about these Chinesium torches, fact or fiction?

The real reason I bought it was that I had another Chinesium torch head on my Everlast 26 torch, but it was only purported to get 200 amps, and the real problem was the insulator wouldn't stay on the front properly. While I mostly use it for tacking I wanted a torch that would be able to handle the 225 amps my Primeweld puts out. Again, fact or fiction? What do you think?

I think CK is unique because they seem to advertise 100% duty cycle on most (all?) of their torches. I would think that other vendors would take advantage of this and know that most welders won't be running anywhere near 100% duty cycle and begin to market their torches accordingly at higher amperages even when using the same spec'd components.

Really, this is why we can so readily overdrive our torches anyway.

It's all marketing.

My guess: You could probably run that 26 at 250 amps for a few mins at a time on DC, but not much more than that.

Spartan wrote:It's all marketing.

My guess: You could probably run that 26 at 250 amps for a few mins at a time on DC, but not much more than that.

That was kind of my take also, but suspect it could be run for more than a few minutes at 225 before it burned up.

It would probably get pretty darn hot running, but my Primeweld will only go up to 225 amps. I've read somewhere that they don't support AC at 250 amps, I seem to recall most of them are only 200 amps for AC.

Most of my welding is being done on a 17, virtually 98% of what I mostly do can be done on 150-175 amps, so the 17 is pretty much what I use mostly. I keep the 26 with a switch on it for tacking, so I can do quick blasts.

The guy at TFS ran the stock CK 17 flexhead at 225 amps for like 7 or 8 minutes on the Primeweld and it got too hot for him to hold... (a number of people can't stand him, but I tolerate his speed talking to learn some of his fab techniques)

I'm really liking the Primeweld, even for the stick welding it's working out. This 26 torch is going on my Everlast flex hose, similar but less quality than a CK flex hose. Maybe one day I'll upgrade to a genuine CK but I don't use the 26 very often and I have 2 CK 17 Flexheads as I bought one to use on my i-Tig 201. Definitely my favorite torch to date.

Wuhan ???? I think I'd be putting that thing in quarantine for 2 weeks...
I don't know IF that head will hold up to a heavy duty cycle forever ... after all, You can hang on to a handgranade for only so long. They can claim anything they want to make a sale.
Mom always said I have asbestos fingers ... heck, I need welding gloves to change a light bulb. Hope ya don't mind the funnin, Alan. Place needs some lighening up.
I also have the "green" 26 torch and have trouble keeping the insulator on.

I have a ck 17 flexloc, it gets hot in my hand at 130amps. I know it's rated 150amps but the cost of bringing one in from the states is very high so I treat it well. Mostly I use a 26 flex head which gets hot in my hand over 190amps. I'm not talking about tacking, I'm talking about running beads on pipe. My view is that a 26 torch maxes out at 200amps. If you want go over that you really need to be going water cooled.
We all know what over revving does for longevity. My guess is a corona stick wouldn't stand up to over revving as well as a ck.

I say fiction, like everyone else. That's the same one I have on my TIG torch holder (the wireless WiFi model )

The only one rated for more is the Heavy Hitter 350. Rated at 350A 100% duty cycle with their "special" wire/cable attachment procedure. I'm not sure what that is though. A credible source I know says that it's more like a 260-280A 100% duty cycle torch.

Oscar wrote:I say fiction, like everyone else. That's the same one I have on my TIG torch holder (the wireless WiFi model )

Are you saying I got one of the wireless models for only $12 ??? Must be my lucky day! That was worth a 2 month wait!

I think it will be fine for my use.

If I'm not mistaken, a 26 is the largest gas torch, is that correct?

Seems going to a 20 with water would be the way to get to 250 amps, or an 18 to get to 350 amps. Seems overkill for my Primeweld.

For the price I'm willing to risk the $12 torch for any 200-225 amp welding, which will be pretty rare. Even for tacking I more often than not use my CK 17 for tacking as I will keep it around 170 amps or so on 1/8" when I blast.

I recently welded out some 10inch slip on carbon flanges. Used a 17 torch running 180 amps. Used 3/32 filler. Got one pass taking about 3 full, 3ft filler rods per pass. Before the torch got too hot to hold, and the power cord going to the torch, would get hot enough to burn skin. But it still functioned. Downside of running out side the rating is that standard split collets get soft and pinch closed relatively quickly. IE high consumable usage. Wedge collets help, but the brass threads start to get soft and gall or strip, shortening torch life. If you don’t just melt down a torch head, done that a few times.

Poland308 wrote:I recently welded out some 10inch slip on carbon flanges. Used a 17 torch running 180 amps. Used 3/32 filler. Got one pass taking about 3 full, 3ft filler rods per pass. Before the torch got too hot to hold, and the power cord going to the torch, would get hot enough to burn skin. But it still functioned. Downside of running out side the rating is that standard split collets get soft and pinch closed relatively quickly. IE high consumable usage. Wedge collets help, but the brass threads start to get soft and gall or strip, shortening torch life. If you don’t just melt down a torch head, done that a few times.

Good info Josh, I'm curious of a couple things...how long were you welding for each 3 ft. filler? I've heard an inch a minute is a good guestimate, so would that be 10 minutes? If so, that says something as the 17 is only rated at 150 amps and that would be 100% duty.

The main reason I quit using standard collets is the distortion from heat. When I was padding a lot of beads, I was just impatient and wouldn't dip the metal in water to cool it down, so things would get hot...what I found was the slotted collets would distort easily. I have just stuck with them as they seem to be a better mouse trap at the end of the day.

One thing to mention though is in the WTAT podcast yesterday, they were speaking with Mark Winchester and he had a pretty good argument for not using a gas lens, that being for welders that wanted better control over their gas and/or results. He was saying that a gas lens can compensate for the lack of correct settings...but for me it only enforced the use of it as I will never be a welder producing welds like him, so it makes sense for me to use a gas lens.

I did have a gas lense on but only because last thing I welded on was some food grade SS, and I was lazy and didn’t change it out. Time running? Not sure I light up and only stop if I need to. The collets are the same either cup . I use wedge collets at home, and only using the splits at work till there gone then I’m switching over there too. Pinched collets cause gas issues.

Poland308 wrote:Pinched collets cause gas issues.

I had a hard time figuring that out when I was first starting to tig, mainly because I could loosen the back cap and put a new tungsten in, so it took me a while to open the entire torch to figure out what was going on when I saw I had destroyed the collet for the most part... Eventually you can't get a new one in when they get real twisted.

Most folks I know use a gas lens, I think mainly because Jody recommends them. To be honest I find it easiest to follow Jody's advice and tailor it to my needs, I'm just not a good enough tig welder yet to make some of those decisions wisely.

In the podcast yesterday Jody was pretty quiet when Mark Winchester was talking about using standard collets and tuning them for gas flow, but IMO Jody is no slouch so even though he recommends using a gas lens I don't see that taking anything away from him. They were mainly talking about Stargon though. If you haven't listened to the podcast it's a good listen. I usually listen to them while I'm working.

I actually just ordered a size 26 torch and consumables kit yesterday based on this thread, I decided not to get the gas lens kit mainly because they're more money and I've heard they don't last nearly as long. But seeing as I'll probably be tig welding outside with a windbreak I might regret it. I was debating getting a watercooled torch and rigging up my own pump but ended up deciding it would just be another thing to deal with and remember to turn on every time I wanted to use it and since I wouldn't be welding aluminum I figured it would probably handle a minute or two above 200 amps if I needed it.

I'm hoping the size won't be too unwieldy despite being a flexhead because I'm used to a watercooled torch at school but I don't plan to be doing much extreme precision tig welding with it, I could've gotten a gas lens kit too, in fact I still could if I canceled my order, but I decided to get a few cans of Excalibur instead, I know I'll use those, and it would just be an expense I'd end up paying elsewhere anyway.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:Seems going to a 20 with water would be the way to get to 250 amps, or an 18 to get to 350 amps. Seems overkill for my Primeweld.

FWIW, I first started running a water cooled 20 on my 200DV, so even less amps than your Primeweld. Never once regretted it. I love love love my 20's. I'll never go back.

Only downside: It takes an extra minute to swap out the torch when needed, and you may need to have a rag in your pocket when doing so. But no big deal.