[Oscar]

I just pulled the trigger on a new open box dynasty 210dx for $2400.
At this price i can easily sell it and upgrade to the 280dx if needed. I can't wait to put it on the oscilloscope!

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Congrats, I'm sure it will serve you very well, as it's a solid machine. No Invertig 400 for me before Christmas. But definitely soon.

[Simclardy]

Cool! I have been out of the loop with my basement project. Did you order the invertig 400 or are you still waiting for production? Sounds like a nice machine.


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[Oscar]

Cool! I have been out of the loop with my basement project. Did you order the invertig 400 or are you still waiting for production? Sounds like a nice machine.


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They're finalizing a few things before they ship them out to customers. But I'm clearing out space in the garage starting today.

[BillE.Dee]

Oscar, IF you don't get the garage cleaned out in time, the formal dining room is a great start for new equipment...a big table, lots of light, heat and a/c. It was for me ... ONCE... then my bride set me straight. Now I live in the barn, in a small corner. Bride took back the dining room and most of the barn. Now looking for a she shed so I can take back the barn.

[Oscar]

Oscar, IF you don't get the garage cleaned out in time, the formal dining room is a great start for new equipment...a big table, lots of light, heat and a/c. It was for me ... ONCE... then my bride set me straight. Now I live in the barn, in a small corner. Bride took back the dining room and most of the barn. Now looking for a she shed so I can take back the barn.

No problems here, I have two spare bedrooms I'm not using to store things.

[Poland308]

If you build it she will go.

[BillE.Dee]

Oscar has a real keeper. I thought I was getting a going away present ... I told my wife I was going to buy a new airplane. She said you buy that thing and I'll leave. The plane is gone...but still looking for a maid to make it easier for my wife to put up with my wants....

[JustTheDad]

I didn't want to start a new thread for a simple question, so I thought I'd ask here since you guys, and especially Oscar, seem to be pretty up to date on the HTP machines.
Since the newer HTP machines like the Invertig 400 have an updated display, and since the 221 is about a 10 year old model, do any of you know when the 221 will be getting updated? I'm shopping for a present for my son. I'm not in any particular rush. I'd also hate to buy him something that's going to be replaced in the next year or so with a new model. He's young, and would prefer a new model even with the risk of it having some growing pains. I'm also looking at the ESAB 205, but he already has a MIG set up, and HTP and their US distributor seem like a good group.
Thanks
Todd

[LtBadd]

do any of you know when the 221 will be getting updated?
Todd

Why not call HTP (USAWeld)

[TraditionalToolworks]

Since the newer HTP machines like the Invertig 400 have an updated display, and since the 221 is about a 10 year old model, do any of you know when the 221 will be getting updated?

I don't think they will update it as there is nothing really wrong with it. The only thing they could use it slightly more power to take it up to what a Dynasty 280dx does (like mentioned in this thread).

Might be a narrow niche though, since the new Invertig 400 was doing 350 amps on a 50 amp welding circuit. Lot more $$$s though, like twice as much...but that is a heck of a machine. I bet your son would love one of those Invertig 400s!

[JustTheDad]

I emailed them.
"We currently have no timeline for a new model to replace the 221."

To HTP, I'm just a guy who may buy one welder, so I don't think they'd tell me about upcoming products or that one of their welders was about to be discontinued, even if they did know. Some of you guys are industry and established customers who may know something about upcoming products before the non-cognoscenti like me are informed. That's why I asked here.

TT, I don't think there's anything wrong with it either. The display on the 400 looks newer, and so do the displays on some of their other models. Given it's a 10 year old machine, I'm guessing it's due for a mild refresh and face lift, but you're right, probably not much else.
Thanks,
Todd

[cj737]

I emailed them.
"We currently have no timeline for a new model to replace the 221."

To HTP, I'm just a guy who may buy one welder, so I don't think they'd tell me about upcoming products or that one of their welders was about to be discontinued, even if they did know. Some of you guys are industry and established customers who may know something about upcoming products before the non-cognoscenti like me are informed. That's why I asked here.

TT, I don't think there's anything wrong with it either. The display on the 400 looks newer, and so do the displays on some of their other models. Given it's a 10 year old machine, I'm guessing it's due for a mild refresh and face lift, but you're right, probably not much else.
Thanks,
Todd

The HTP is a very good machine, but if you want to buy your son something for the future, a 210dx from Miller is probably a better buy. Software updates, multiple waveforms, modern display, local warranty service. You'll pay a bit extra upfront, but amortized over the years and hours of use, it comes down to a few pennies.

[Oscar]

The only thing they could use it slightly more power to take it up to what a Dynasty 280dx does (like mentioned in this thread).

That is what the Invertig 400 is for. Cost the same or less than a 280dx.

I don't think they will touch the 221 since there will always be a need for a 200A class TIG, which is what it is. If they gave it more power, the price would go up, and then they wouldn't have a machine to compete with other 200A-class TIG's. That would make all those sales go elsewhere, as once you get up to 300A, that class of machine starts to become way too cost prohibitive for most enthusiasts/hobbyists, which I think is one of their target consumer bases. If they were to swap it out for a 280-300A machine, it would likely be priced around $4000 if I had to guess. Someone who thought they could just barely afford and were willing to get a $2500 machine will now look elsewhere, as it's likely too far of a stretch at 2x the cost. The few that would buy it wouldn't offset the sheer number of ones who would buy the $2500 machine.

[JustTheDad]

Hi Oscar,
I really only thought they would update the display and programability to make it more modern. I didn't think they'd change the specs much.

I saw on the Primeweld 225 thread that one user here said he preferred using his Primeweld to his HTP because he could see all of his settings on the dials. It looks like the 400 has a more modern display that might make it easier to see more than 2 settings at once. Is that not the case?

Thanks,
Todd

[Oscar]

Yea definitely the displays on the propulse machines and the invertig 400 is more modern. Unfortunately HTP is still at the mercy of Stel that makes the machines for them. You can't really see any more settings on the 400 than you can on the 221. At a glance you can see if pulse is on, and if it is on AC, but other than that you still have to go to secondary screens to see the rest of the settings that most people would be interested in (pre/post gas, up/down slope, pulse parameters, balance, etc). Also the form factor has a lot to do with it. The LCD screen itself on the PP200/220/300 Invertig 400 would barely fit in the area where the 221 has it's controls, and then you still the need the buttons/knobs. I don't doubt that some users prefer some ways machines are setup like the primeweld 225, but that machine is a lot bigger physically that can accommodate all the knobs. The 221 is a lot smaller in both overall size and in the area where the controls are. If I had to guess the pw225 is about 3" wider, and probably 3-4" taller, which gives it a lot more room. Also, I don't know how the PW225 is set-up internally, but the 221 has quad-fans --- two in the back, and two in the front, so you can't shrink the louver'd area any more because it would block the lower fan more than it already is. So yea I agree with you, but in the end, we're all at the mercy of Stel.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I saw on the Primeweld 225 thread that one user here said he preferred using his Primeweld to his HTP because he could see all of his settings on the dials. It looks like the 400 has a more modern display that might make it easier to see more than 2 settings at once. Is that not the case?

Todd,

Just to add my free $0.02 which I'm never shy about...

That was George that you're referring to. George was one of the beta testers for the Primeweld and may do some repairs, but to date I have not seen any repairs needed on the Primewelds, so that side of biz could be slow even if George would be the person they go to. The display is larger on the Invertig 400 but I wouldn't expect them to upgrade the 221 to the same display, and Oscar can probably tell you if you can see more than one setting at a time.

I wanted to add that what cj pointed out is certainly true, it probably depends what you want for your son. Miller is considered the gold standard in the industry, so if your son is planning to be a professional welder, the Dynasty could get the nod in several regards. I do own a Primeweld and very happy with it, I'm certain you've seen my comments. But I'm not a professional welder, despite liking quality tools. I really wanted to get an HTP, short of a Dynasty, but I have some other stuff going on and the Primeweld made sense for me and I'm glad I didn't extend myself out and get an HTP as it doesn't make sense for me. I need a septic systems more than a nicer welder, and I could have even made a case for sticking with the DC Tig machine I already had/have. Just don't tell my wife that...cause I didn't. Luckily my wife doesn't decide on the tools I buy.

Consider your needs and what works best for you. HTP makes an AWESOME welder, I have used one before, they are built well, small and compact with a punch. The 400 is probably as much of a welder, possibly more, than most people need. The majority of work can be done on a 200 amp machine until you start getting into thicker material in the 1/4"-1/2" range or even larger. 1/2" aluminum could start demanding more than 220 amps.

Also, I'm no professional, so take what I say with a large grain of salt. Better to listen to people that do this for a living day in and day out...

[JustTheDad]

Thank you Oscar. Your explanation on why updating the display without increasing the size would be difficult makes a lot of sense.

Alan, thank you for the feedback.

I think I gave you guys the wrong impression when I said I was shopping for a present for my son. He's not a professional welder. He's a HS senior who will be entering an aerospace engineering program this fall (probably at Virginia Tech) and who decided he should learn TIG welding since that's used in the industry. He'll be taking a TIG welding class at our local technical college, but the onsite "lab" work is going to be limited due to our current pandemic. If I get a TIG welder, he'll be able to practice at home. (He'll also be able to teach me to use it.) I'm more of a wood worker, but I love making stuff too, so I have no issues buying a fairly high end welder that he can keep for many years. He won't need 400 amps, but I think it's worth getting one that can do AC and DC.

Maybe I'm being silly looking at the HTP, but I've always been of the buy the best you can and you only cry once mindset. Also, even though VT is out of state tuition for us, it's a lot less expensive than some of the other schools he could have chosen, so a high end welder as a graduation present seems reasonable to me.

That said, I'm getting the impression that the Primeweld might be a fine option since he isn't going to be a professional welder (at least not for a while). I also considered the ESAB 205, but we already have a Miller 211 for GMAW which is as much his as mine. I will look at the Miller 210dx, but it honestly feels a bit wrong to buy a kid a higher end welder than what a lot guys making a living welding have. I got the impression the HTP 221 is just short of that highest luxury level professional tool. Basically the economical professional level option.

Thank you all for letting me side track this thread. -Todd

[Oscar]

Todd,

You summed it up pretty good. HTP is the "working man's" high-end tool, if that makes any sense. Either the HTP 221 or the Primeweld 225, better act fast, as they are BOTH selling out pretty much as fast as the 18-wheeler is unloaded! I know HTP received some 221s earlier this month so they might have some left depending on how many they got. The primeweld, well.......if you don't order it the second it goes on the website, it's gone!

[TraditionalToolworks]

I think I gave you guys the wrong impression when I said I was shopping for a present for my son. He's not a professional welder. He's a HS senior who will be entering an aerospace engineering program this fall (probably at Virginia Tech) and who decided he should learn TIG welding since that's used in the industry.

Todd,

I have to mention this to you because this scenario I am about to mention is more common that one would think. If you look in the classified/for-sale forum here, you'll see an ad for an HTP 221 DV. I did talk with the seller, but buying a used machine across country is difficult, especially since the guy didn't keep the original packaging/boxes. That in itself was kind of a deal breaker for me, I'd hate to buy a unit that arrived not working due to shipping.

But more importantly I want to point out that like many people, the guy went and bought ever accessory, stocked up on tungstens of every size, filler by the 10# boxes, mag clamps and mag squares, high end Optrel helmet, stubby kits, pyrex cups big and small (the new fad), magswitches, chop saw, portaband, etc...but he most likely found out soon that tig is harder than one thinks it is in most cases, and when you got $6k of machine and accessories sitting in front of you, it's like getting hit by a train when you realize maybe it wasn't for you. So the guy is asking like 80%-90% of what you can buy one new, so of course not very many people interested to buy it, and I think he thought I would pay his asking and told me someone had offered to buy it and was looking to get more for the package...I just told him I wouldn't even pay that much, so he should go ahead and sell it to the guy. Then the guy evidently "backed out".

I'm more of a wood worker, but I love making stuff too, so I have no issues buying a fairly high end welder that he can keep for many years.

You're not looking to adopt, are you? I'm only 61, is that too old? My parents never got me anything so nice.

Maybe I'm being silly looking at the HTP, but I've always been of the buy the best you can and you only cry once mindset. Also, even though VT is out of state tuition for us, it's a lot less expensive than some of the other schools he could have chosen, so a high end welder as a graduation present seems reasonable to me.

I think it depends. I got both my kids through school, my son went to UCLA, my daughter went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, both XLNT schools. They cost about $25k/year, so wasn't cheap. But now it's my turn to try and finish my lakefront shop/home.

That said, I'm getting the impression that the Primeweld might be a fine option since he isn't going to be a professional welder (at least not for a while). I also considered the ESAB 205, but we already have a Miller 211 for GMAW which is as much his as mine. I will look at the Miller 210dx, but it honestly feels a bit wrong to buy a kid a higher end welder than what a lot guys making a living welding have. I got the impression the HTP 221 is just short of that highest luxury level professional tool. Basically the economical professional level option.

I would place the HTP above the ESAB, but there are a lot of followers for ESAB. HTP has XLNT support, and a lot of pro welders buy them. The owner of HTP America is a stand up gentleman, IMO. ESAB is almost as much as the HTP. However, the Primeweld is not a bad machine and I have one, so don't want to sound bias. I wanted an HTP, I am not trying to tell you otherwise. I am building a full on shop at my new place, but I have a lot of other expenses.

One thing to keep in mind, if power is not an issue at your house, you can go for the 221 single voltage with no water cooler for $2500. it is still 3x the price of the Primeweld. The Primeweld is just hard to beat for the price, and I did see the inside of one as a guy on this board opened his and took pics, it looks better than my Everlast. It doesn't look as good as the HTP. I have not seen one fail yet, but they have only been out over 2 years. They also pay shipping, don't charge out of state tax, and come with a genuine CK17 flex head torch and a decent pedal and a 3 years warranty w/shipping paid for service. Really hard to get a better package, *BUT*, it is no Dynasty, and not even an HTP...I'm not sure if ESAB is even made in Europe still but is probably better built.

I've probably replied way too much, I'm wordy and type fast...what can I say...but have given you some stuff to think about. Even if you do plan to get an HTP or Miller, might not be a bad idea to make sure tig welding is for your son, or even you. You do have the 211, not a bad machine actually, but not a tig machine. Can you add a valve torch to make sure your son likes tig? You don't wanna be that guy with $6k invested to find out it's not for him...my free $0.02

[JustTheDad]

Hi Alan,
Excellent advice and all good points. Also, congrats on getting the kids through college and on having such smart kids. I've got a daughter at UNC right now, so my wife and I will have two in, in a few months.
My son will try TIG welding at the local Tech college before I order this machine. If he doesn't like it, I'll probably order a prime weld for myself and find another gift option for him.
But even if he doesn't love it, he'll still practice and become competent. That's just the kind of kid he is. His last semester of HS he signed up for AP chemistry, AP physics, multivariable calculus which comes after AP calculus, an online aerospace engineering class, as well as the 3 required IB program classes. Then, to confirm he's nuts, he signed up for AP stats because he liked the teacher.
I think the welding course during his summer break will almost a vacation for him and stop him from getting bored, which means he'll probably love it. It also seems really worthwhile since he'll pick up some knowledge about metallurgy, he can use the skill on engineering projects, and knowing how are the things you design are going to be made and repaired is always useful.
My father in law was an HVAC guy and manager of the fabrication shop at a couple of Universities in Boston. He built the first liquid nitrogen or liquid hydrogen condenser, which I think was for the Manhattan project, and I remember how he talked about the engineers giving them designs that couldn't be built or fixed. They had to work out with those engineers how to turn the designs into something the guys in his shop could fabricate and also that could be serviced. I see my son learning to weld and also to fabricate things as a good step towards not being an engineer who designs things that can't be fixed.
Anyway, I think I have exceeded you on the long-windedness front. Sorry about that.
I really do appreciate the advice and will think about it long and hard before I spend several thousand dollars on tools just because they're cool.

[Thatkid2diesel]

Hi Alan,
Excellent advice and all good points. Also, congrats on getting the kids through college and on having such smart kids. I've got a daughter at UNC right now, so my wife and I will have two in, in a few months.
My son will try TIG welding at the local Tech college before I order this machine. If he doesn't like it, I'll probably order a prime weld for myself and find another gift option for him.
But even if he doesn't love it, he'll still practice and become competent. That's just the kind of kid he is. His last semester of HS he signed up for AP chemistry, AP physics, multivariable calculus which comes after AP calculus, an online aerospace engineering class, as well as the 3 required IB program classes. Then, to confirm he's nuts, he signed up for AP stats because he liked the teacher.
I think the welding course during his summer break will almost a vacation for him and stop him from getting bored, which means he'll probably love it. It also seems really worthwhile since he'll pick up some knowledge about metallurgy, he can use the skill on engineering projects, and knowing how are the things you design are going to be made and repaired is always useful.
My father in law was an HVAC guy and manager of the fabrication shop at a couple of Universities in Boston. He built the first liquid nitrogen or liquid hydrogen condenser, which I think was for the Manhattan project, and I remember how he talked about the engineers giving them designs that couldn't be built or fixed. They had to work out with those engineers how to turn the designs into something the guys in his shop could fabricate and also that could be serviced. I see my son learning to weld and also to fabricate things as a good step towards not being an engineer who designs things that can't be fixed.
Anyway, I think I have exceeded you on the long-windedness front. Sorry about that.
I really do appreciate the advice and will think about it long and hard before I spend several thousand dollars on tools just because they're cool.

The Primeweld welder for my money was the best way to go. Everyone that chimed in on the forum had nothing but good things to say about the product and the support, including 7 days a week assistance, if there is a problem paid shipping both ways etc. I can say mine was packaged very well, the CK worldwide is a great touch, and it will serve me very well and would serve your son well too. I too was at a crossroads and did consider the HTP Invertig 221, but after some deep thought ruled it out due to funds available. There are a lot of knobs on the Primeweld, but unless your son is pulsing or not using the pedal, there aren't really many knobs that will need to be adjusted. Virginia Tech is a good school, and my family has had season tickets to the Football games for many years. Wish your son well and Go Hokies!

[TraditionalToolworks]

Also, congrats on getting the kids through college and on having such smart kids.

Thanks, I like to think they're smart but they try to disprove me occasionally.

I've got a daughter at UNC right now, so my wife and I will have two in, in a few months.

Good for your daughter, Triangle Park is like a mini-Silicon Valley hub on the east coast. Ouch on 2 at once... In California the UCs will give you a discount if you have more than 1 child enrolled. One of our friends had 3 kids enrolled at the same time and got a nice discount. Yours will be in different States though. Good thing is you probably don't have near the costs as the California UCs. I live in the Cupertino area, home to Apple. This is one of the most desirable areas in Silicon Valley, most of the kids take AP classes to the max and have over 4.0 GPAs. Not my kids , I encouraged them to take NO AP classes. My son took one or two only, my daughter none. I don't know about current, but our local high school got about 50 students per year accepted to UC Berkeley. 2013 when my daughter graduated there were 5 accepted to Stanford, but only 2 families could afford to send their kids there. And this is one of the most affluent area in the U.S., problem is people spend their money on their mortgages.

Your son will do fine with tig, IMO, because he's the type of kid that will do whatever he needs to do in order to learn how to do it correctly. Tig is also addicting, more so than any other welding process, IMO, but that is subjective. I think young kids can pick it up easier, and the Tech College class will help him. I am completely self taught, not that I can tig very well, I don't weld burned up black booger welds I see posted on the online forums stating, "how do these tig welds look?"

My father in law was an HVAC guy and manager of the fabrication shop at a couple of Universities in Boston. He built the first liquid nitrogen or liquid hydrogen condenser, which I think was for the Manhattan project

They come from good genes! Einstein was/is my hero. Whenever I create something complex I try to remember what he said about all things should break down to simplicity (to paraphrase). A good thought to remember.

[JustTheDad]

Hi Alan,
10 min ago the instructor at the tech college emailed me. They cancelled the lab sections, and planned to add them on in the Fall. Not really useful for my son. I will start of new thread asking about where to get some instruction since I've derailed thread to far from the Dynasty 280 already!

[Oscar]

he signed up for AP chemistry, AP physics, multivariable calculus which comes after AP calculus, an online aerospace engineering class, as well as the 3 required IB program classes. Then, to confirm he's nuts, he signed up for AP stats because he liked the teacher.

Sounds like me when I was his age. A great age to learn!

This is what I took (and passed) at some point during my college years:



As smart as he seems to be, it would not be a bad idea to make sure he has a mentor to help him out. He will always have more and more questions that he will seek answers to.