Welding Tips and Tricks

I have seen Jody demonstrate and heard of people taking a 6g test on carbon steel with er309 rod. My question is, what does that qualify someone for? Are they only qualified for ss electrodes, or does it also qualify them for stainless material as well?
Thanks

That's it mate. 1 test for two materials.

Ok thanks for the reply

Good luck.

The carbon steel coupons are also cheaper to administer performance testing on....the welder is still placing filler in a groove, just like the production work will be. The codes usually allow this as a cost savings for the fabricator/contractor/manufacturer.

Hello,
Just like to add a few things.

As far as ASME Sec IX goes. For GTAW, Testing with Er70S-X and Carbon Steel Pipe with GTAW qualifies you to weld on both Carbon Steel and Stainless Steel pipe. Here is why

Sec IX groups both base metals and filler metals into groups. Some of the rules within the code allow groups to qualify for other groups .

ER3xx and Er70Sx are both grouped together as F Number 6 . The Code (Sec IX) says the following is a requirement for requalification.https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ib ... x.2010.pdf

QW-404.15 A change from one F-Number in table QW-432 to any other F-Number or to any other filler metal, except as permitted in QW-433. Since there is no change in F Number you are good.

For the base metal the code says QW-403.18 A change from one P-Number to any other P-Number or to a base metal not listed in table QW/QB-422, except as permitted in QW -423, and in QW -420. QW 423 groups quite a few base metals together including Carbon Steel, Stainless Steel, Inconel, CuNi and NiCu.

So here it is in a nutshell, kinda. If you qualify with SS Wire or CS Wire on CS or SS Base Metal you are qualified for either provided all other variables remain the same.

If you Qualify with SS Stick Electrode (300 Series) on CS or SS Material, you are only qualified for SS Electrodes but you are qualified for any base metal as allowed by QW 433.

If you Qualify with CS Electrodes on CS or SS Material (not common), you are qualified to weld with only CS Electrodes (F4) on any base metal as allowed by QW 433.

Though YOU the welder are qualified, you will only be welding on materials in which a qualified welding procedure exists for. Thats a whole other set of rules.

How I handle this as an inspector when testing welders (if allowed) is to have the people test with CS and get the qualification done. Then perform workmanship sample on SS material similar to that to be used in production. A many welders who pass a 2" CS or Even SS Butt joint will struggle with a 3/4" Schedule 80 SS Butt. Even though they are "Qualified"

I have shown up on a job or two in my day and made a mess of a few welds even though I had been tested and certified for that weld. But that's a whole other embarrassing story.

Gerald,

You may find me picking your brain a bit in the next few weeks, to help translate some of the details of Sect. IX.

Our company is working at getting our "R" stamp, and will have an audit Tuesday.

I have an outdated copy of sct. IX in .pdf on my laptop for an overview, but it's a terribly dry read...

Steve S

If you are having ab NBIC audit I am pretty sure you will have to have a current code book but I may be wrong. For joint reviews (ASME and NBIC) you do.

I am by no means an expert but would be glad to help you when I can.

Section IX is easy when you learn how to use it. Just reading the code will make your head hurt and you will end up with the wrong conclusions.
The trick is to always start with the tables in QW 250 when to see which are the essential, supplementary essential and non-essential variables for each process and then refers to the relevant paragraphs for the details.
If you are doing welder qualifications then you work in almost the same way with tables in QW-350

Taz,
That approach makes much more sense than a cover-to-cover read. SO much of the material in IX will never apply to me, and that seems like a great way to weed out the superfluous.

@weldingt,
I'm assuming the audit is a combined NBIC/ASME, so there will be a code book available to me at work. I've gotten a bit of the "mushroom treatment" on this, despite being the only shop-floor person involved in the project. I'm a bit dissappointed that I was not kept more in the loop on this, as I may have to answer questions for the auditor as the sole weldor on the demonstration piece and the only qualified and current code weldor in the shop. (My super is qualified, but not current.)

Thanks!

Steve S

Steve, if your superintendent is qualified to ASME IX it is very easy to renew his qualification.

QW-322.2 Renewal of Qualification.
(a) Renewal of qualification expired under
QW-322.1(a) may be made for any process by welding a
single test coupon of either plate or pipe, of any material,
thickness or diameter, in any position, and by testing of
that coupon as required by QW-301 and QW-302. A successful
test renews the welder or welding operator’s previous
qualifications for that process for those materials,
thicknesses, diameters, positions, and other variables for
which he was previously qualified. he has to do to reinstate his qualification is to weld any metal

Thanks, taz,

My super is unlikely to renew, as since his promotion he has no time to be on his tools, but that information will still prove helpful, as I may be six months from my last pipe qualification by the time this audit is done.

Oh, and I think I'm going to have to qualify on GTAW aluminum. (Shouldn't be a problem, but a test is a test, and anything can happen...)

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:Taz,
That approach makes much more sense than a cover-to-cover read. SO much of the material in IX will never apply to me, and that seems like a great way to weed out the superfluous.

@weldingt,
I'm assuming the audit is a combined NBIC/ASME, so there will be a code book available to me at work. I've gotten a bit of the "mushroom treatment" on this, despite being the only shop-floor person involved in the project. I'm a bit dissappointed that I was not kept more in the loop on this, as I may have to answer questions for the auditor as the sole weldor on the demonstration piece and the only qualified and current code weldor in the shop. (My super is qualified, but not current.)

Thanks!

Steve S

During the audit, one of the key points is your quality system related to material control and process control. Keep material Identification on all cut pieces. Get familar with the WPS and understand what you have to do. Your QA/QC person will probably prepare a "traveler" to go with the project and have all of the information you need.

As a welder, you probably won't be required to know anything more than how to follow the instructions but being knowledgeable in the codes is always a good thing. That knowledge can be a stepping stone to other opportunities in the future.

Here is a link to a website belonging to one of the most knowledgeable people I have met face to face when it comes to ASME SEC IX. http://www.sperkoengineering.com/html/asme.htm

My interest in codes and standards many years ago has provided many opportunities over the years .

Thanks, Gerald,

Generally, I'd agree that "as the welder" my knowledge requirements don't expand much beyond the WPS, but I'm pretty sure that when this comes down, I'm going to be asked to administer the program. Thus, my expanded interest.

We've been coached very tightly through material monitoring and traceability on all consumables and materials related to code work. Our sister shop in TX has both U and R stamps, and has been a huge help walking through this.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:Thanks, Gerald,

Generally, I'd agree that "as the welder" my knowledge requirements don't expand much beyond the WPS, but I'm pretty sure that when this comes down, I'm going to be asked to administer the program. Thus, my expanded interest.

We've been coached very tightly through material monitoring and traceability on all consumables and materials related to code work. Our sister shop in TX has both U and R stamps, and has been a huge help walking through this.

Steve S

If you have other facilities with their ASME and NB stamp then I am sure you guys have a system thats good to go. Get all the information you can as you are working with it. The QC side of the welding world is a good thing to know. But nothin beats watchin the fire !

Have a great night .