[andygmac]

I am about to take a 1g butt and also a fillet using mig. Had a few practice goes and done some etching, just wondered if anyone would cast their eyes over them, and give me an honest opinion
Cheers all
Andy

[Otto Nobedder]

Andy, that 1G is golden. Great appearance, and a clean etch.

I'm a bit "iffy" on the fillet, and would love to see a dye-pen of that vertical leg... The line in the etch seems unusually sharp. The profile says the penetration is there, but in the picture, the tie-in is questionable. I suspect from the profile that it's fine, so perhaps the sharp line is a camera artifact, but if you have access to dye-penetrant, it might be worth testing it just to prove it's just the image and not the joint.

Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

Andy,
I have to second Steve on both counts. Wonderful groove, very consistent and everything looks like it should. Also Steve didn't mention but looks like their is a small spot of porosity or inclusion at the base of the root pass in the fillet. Looking great overall. Get us all your specs.
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Cheers guys, appreciate your input
The specs for the procedure is
26v. 260amps 1.2mm wire with a 25mm stick out , travel speed of 3 to 4.5mm per second, and the gas is ferromaxx 7 (argon co2 mix)
I admit on the fillet I found it hard to travel that slowly, maybe that caused the vertical leg anomaly
Is there sufficient root pen on the fillet?
I'd like to say the spot on the fillet is a mark on the camera lens but it is a tiny bubble grrrr lol
Funnily enough, it was the 1g that I thought I would struggle with, but the weld went in as easy as pie, just hope I can replicate it on Thursday when the inspector is watching over me lol
Cheers again guys
Andy

[andygmac]

Here is a copy of the procedure

[Superiorwelding]

When in seen the procedure my heart jumped, I was thinking oh no he shared information he shouldn't have. But great job excluding who it is and their personal information. Most companies don't take to kindly sharing their WPS'. I will caution others though, posting company documents is subject to termination for my company. We are up to $15k for a PQR and WPS we are working on now, so posting it would be a problem. Just a word of caution.

Anyway, I think you will do just fine on test day, keep us informed though!
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Thanks, yes I did think to myself that I'd better erase company names, actually I have to write my own procedure and I was given the one above as a guide I still think the travel speed is painfully slow, I may increase it a little in my procedure lol
Will keep you all up to date
Cheers Andy

[andygmac]

And here is the etch of the single pass fillet in 12mm plate

[andygmac]

Just an update, I should have taken the tests yesterday, but due to a delay in the supply of the correct grade of material, the tests have been put back to Monday 14th. At least it gives me another week to practice lol

[Superiorwelding]

Practice never hurts anyone, unless you practice to much and put to much thought into it. I have been re-qualifying for 3G tests and found that I do better if I literally just plow through it not given it much thought.
Keep us posted and get us some pics of your practice pieces.
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Cheers Jonathan, I think I'll just do a couple of full length tests, just to get the travel right, I've only been doing 200mm runs but the test has to be 350mm minimum .
Incidentally, what is your opinion of the travel speed in the procedure? I'm having trouble on the fillet, the procedure states a 6mm(1\4 inch) weld, but with the volts/amps/ sickout/travel speed, I can't seem to get it down to that size, maybe if you have a spare moment perhaps you could have a quick go with those settings and see what you think

Cheers
Andy

[Superiorwelding]

Cheers Jonathan, I think I'll just do a couple of full length tests, just to get the travel right, I've only been doing 200mm runs but the test has to be 350mm minimum .
Incidentally, what is your opinion of the travel speed in the procedure? I'm having trouble on the fillet, the procedure states a 6mm(1\4 inch) weld, but with the volts/amps/ sickout/travel speed, I can't seem to get it down to that size, maybe if you have a spare moment perhaps you could have a quick go with those settings and see what you think

Cheers
Andy

Andy,
I would be more than happy to give it a go tonight and see what happens. Now to convert everything out of mm thankful for google! Will report back when I get a chance.
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Thanks Jonathan, appreciate that
Andy

[Superiorwelding]

Andy,
I went out to the garage and switched my MIller 252 over from self-shield flux core to .045 to run a few beads tonight, didnt get very far when I realized your 1G specs fall right into our WPS. Here is a thread that has a picture of a 1" AWS D1.1 1G test I did a few weeks ago to hold you over for now. Also I only have 75/25 in the garage right now anyway.
http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... 7&start=30
Here are the WPS settings for this particular test; ER70S-6 .045, 26-26.5 volts, 280-300 ipm and 240-260 amps, 90/10 gas @ 29-40 CFH, stick out 1/2"-3/4" and I cant remember the travel speed, will fill in that blank in the morning.

I will run a few fillets tomorrow when I get a chance for you. I have two more questions. What is the gas mix percentages you are using and is it only the fillets you are having trouble with?

Oh yea, when I came in I realized why my welder was not acting correctly, I still have it set on DCEN for the flux core.
It happens.
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Cheers Jonathan,
The gas is 7% Co2 2.5% O2 rest argon.
I was just finding it hard to get a 1/4 inch weld on the fillet at that travel speed
Ill see if I have a spare hour or two tomorrow and try again lol
Or I'll just up the speed a little on the final procedure lol

Those welds of yours look great I hope mine look like that on Monday

Agh we all forget the polarity occasionally lol

One more thing the inspector may want me to stop and restart, do I do the same as mma, start in front, pull the weld over the crater, then continue? Or just start on the crater? Or grind it back and restart?
Sorry for all the questions, but I don't want to fail, it would be a very expensive failure lol. Best to cover all bases

Cheers
Andy

[Superiorwelding]

Cheers Jonathan,
The gas is 7% Co2 2.5% O2 rest argon.
I was just finding it hard to get a 1/4 inch weld on the fillet at that travel speed
Ill see if I have a spare hour or two tomorrow and try again lol
Or I'll just up the speed a little on the final procedure lol

Those welds of yours look great I hope mine look like that on Monday

Agh we all forget the polarity occasionally lol

One more thing the inspector may want me to stop and restart, do I do the same as mma, start in front, pull the weld over the crater, then continue? Or just start on the crater? Or grind it back and restart?
Sorry for all the questions, but I don't want to fail, it would be a very expensive failure lol. Best to cover all bases

Cheers
Andy

Andy,
I didnt get to run any beads today but the good news is I can duplicate your weld to a "T" as I have the same gas you are testing with. Last question for you is how thick is the material on the fillet weld? My machines are either set up for .035 or .052 so I will have to switch out wire and run them. I will use our DC600 as this is what the gas is on.
Personally, I do not know why the inspector would want you to stop and restart on a mig test unless he is just testing your skills. You could grind the stop out a little and start back on the crater, filling it flush with the previous weld and move on. I would be afraid if you started ahead and backed up you would have a chance for lack of fusion because you would just be riding over molten metal. I would like to hear what others have to say about this one as well. One thing to consider is this portion will not be included in the bent test so you should be good. I guess unless it is x-ray.
I heard a saying a long time ago that went something like this "show me a weldor that has not failed a welding test and I will show you a weldor that has not taken many tests". This is not ment to discourage rather to show that we all fail tests at one point or another. I failed my first 3G 7018 stick test, kinda embarrassing because my instructor at the time was getting ready to hire me for some part time work and he was "bragging" on me.
If you get the chance to put down a few more beads let us see. I dont think you have anything to worry about though.
-Jonathan

[Superiorwelding]

Andy,
Ok I ran a bead as close to your settings as I could. Ended up running off the 350MP. Used the same gas @35cfh, .045 wire, 26volts, 425 wire speed and achieved around the 260 amps in your WPS. I timed my travel at roughly 12 inches per minute. I was able to get a 1/4" fillet but the top is a little to hot. You will have to move to achieve that 1/4" fillet, any slower and you will exceed your specs. I did not do a macro etch test as I do not have anything here to do it with. I hope this helps and if not just let me know.
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Thanks for that Jonathan, your help is really appreciated.
Your fillet looks good
Your 12 inches per min roughly equates to 5mm per second, which is a half mm a second faster than the spec, so it seems to me that we both agree the spec is too slow
In my final procedure I think I'll up the travel speed as I have to write the final spec myself
The materials for the fillet is 20mm (3\4")plate for the multi pass and 12mm (3\8") plate for the single pass.
Thanks again for your help Jonathan, you are a hero

[andygmac]

You were correct in saying that the vertical leg of my fillet had lack of fusion, I stuck it in the fly press and bust the weld . I think I need to angle the weld more towards the vertical? I will try tomorrow.

20140709_144354.jpg (40.56 KiB) Viewed 3216 times

I don't some more welds with the spec settings, but I couldn't get less than a 8mm (5\16") leg . time to rewrite the spec lol.

20140710_150952.jpg (28.28 KiB) Viewed 3216 times

20140710_151047.jpg (22.19 KiB) Viewed 3216 times

Here is the single pass fillet, bust under the press, I assume this is where the weld should break?

20140709_144114.jpg (59.38 KiB) Viewed 3215 times

Cheers for all of your help
Andy

[Otto Nobedder]

"IF" it breaks, you want it to break outside the weld.

The goal is that your weld is at least as strong, and preferably stronger, than the parent metal, so your work is not the "weak link" in the equation.

A break between passes (which is what I think I see in your last picture) suggests lack of fusion/lack of penetration.

You need more heat in the weld. Generally, more wire speed gives you more current. If you get too much spatter, increase the voltage a bit, and then bring the wire speed up to match.

Steve S

[andygmac]

Cheers Steve. This was only a single pass, the spec was a 6mm (1\4") weld on 12mm (1\2") plate.
I'll have another go today, maybe go to the top settings on the spec and see if that gives me more pen.
Cheers
Andy

[andygmac]

OK, so I thought I'd do a side bend on the butt weld, at least it didn't break lol

[Otto Nobedder]

"LIKE"...

A side-bend pass is a good thing.

Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

Your side bend looks great!

After careful review I am beginning to think the lack of penetration on your T joints is your gun angle. Look carefully back at the pictures you posted. You can see your "nipple" is pointed toward and into your bottom plate. I believe you may be trying to hold a true 45* when you need to actually point a little more toward the vertical plate. I was going to break my piece today and see how it did but we used the other side to set a machine so I will try to get another in soon.

Another thing that concerns me is the last picture has a lot of "balls" laying on the horizontal plate. I am also wondering if either you have way touch push angle or you don't have enough wire and are in fact not at 260 amps. I am leaning toward the gun angle though.

These are just thoughts, let me know what you think.
-Jonathan

[andygmac]

Thanks Steve and Jonathan.
I thought about torch angle too, as the bottom leg is longer than the vertical.
I took all my tests on Monday, cranked up the juice a bit, burnt my knuckles on my left hand through my gloves lol ( Jody needs to invent a tig knuckle lol)
I think I could have done better, but I'm always self critical.
Results will be in next week so fingers crossed.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again for all advice,
Cheers Andy