[delraydella]

Now that you mention it, Werkspace, i'm sure that you're right. It can't be that easy.

I've never seen these boxes in person, just the pictures, so I'll have to go over and get a better look and get some better pictures.


Other Steve

[noddybrian]

Even with the picture quality I think it's reasonably clear there are 3 lock bars on both the hinge side & the lock side of the door but none top & bottom so cutting the external hinge will not release the door - the hinge is really only there to support the door while open & plays no part in securing it when shut - but I still believe spreading the frame is possible - I'd check the depth of bar engagement on the one that has had the locks removed - if it's not too deep then using wedges is a " normal " solution - or as the internal structure of the units is not likely to be very thick plasma the floor out between the open one and the next above or below so a " Porta Power " ram can be inserted across the opening on the inside - I think you'd be surprised how little movement is needed to allow the door to open.
Good luck with the project - I doubt you'll find much of value - but please post pictures of the more "unusual" items you find !

[WerkSpace]

I think that a Body and Frame Repair Kit might work in this case.
They are relatively inexpensive and could do the job.
I bought mine for repairing rollover vehicles and have found many uses for it.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Kits ... /1270021.p
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Kits ... /1270020.p

Even with the picture quality I think it's reasonably clear there are 3 lock bars on both the hinge side & the lock side of the door but none top & bottom so cutting the external hinge will not release the door - the hinge is really only there to support the door while open & plays no part in securing it when shut - but I still believe spreading the frame is possible - I'd check the depth of bar engagement on the one that has had the locks removed - if it's not too deep then using wedges is a " normal " solution - or as the internal structure of the units is not likely to be very thick plasma the floor out between the open one and the next above or below so a " Porta Power " ram can be inserted across the opening on the inside - I think you'd be surprised how little movement is needed to allow the door to open.
Good luck with the project - I doubt you'll find much of value - but please post pictures of the more "unusual" items you find !

[Otto Nobedder]

This is why I said "take a look". Those could indeed be strikes for three bolts on the hinge side, but there is clearly only one strike on the key side. Why three at the hinge? They appear to me to be points securing the hinge structure to the frame. 1920's technology. It would take a substantial key to relilably turn that much mechanism. And, they're locked inside a huge safe. I'm not sure hinge-side bolts and strikes would be considered necessary in 1920. That's why I'm trying to get my brother involved. He could tell me a great deal, but he hasn't replied to my email, yet.

An examination of the removed door, and the box it was removed from, will tell the tale.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

Opened that picture in MS Paint, and zoomed in on the hinge side...

Not "strikes". No depth. Appears to be flathead countersunk screws supporting the "pin" side of the hinge bracket.

I believe thin-cutting the pins will work.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

I await what Steve learns when he examines the removed door and it's frame.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

Another thought, Steve,

If your examination proves me right, there may be "play" in the doors, so it may be possible to lift them slightly in the frame, so that "thin-kerf" diamond blade cuts ONLY the pin. 1/16" would do it.

I'm not sure I'd "pry" them, at least not without padding, but IF they'll move, a glazier's suction cup and a helper might do it.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

This is friggin' killing me. This is the kind of project I LOVE. Finding an unconventional solution to a completely absurd problem!

If I were anywhere near Detroit, I'd have to look for myself!

Damn!

Steve S

[delraydella]

Oh, come on! I went all the way down to Stennis for a $25 paint tinter!

it might be a while til i can get in to see them up close. This week is no good and i'm on vacation the next week til the end of the month.

Other Steve

[Otto Nobedder]

Oh, come on! I went all the way down to Stennis for a $25 paint tinter!

Other Steve

Good point. I'm preaching to the choir, eh?

Steve S.

[delraydella]

Don't worry about it. That whole trip was just an excuse to get out of here for a few days. I got to see a Cincinatti Reds ballgame, went to Jack In The box outside of Nashville and went into N.O. for a muffaletta sandwich. Plus I got my fill of Waffle House pork chop dinners on the way down and up.

Other Steve

[Otto Nobedder]

Hey, Steve,

Here's what my brother had to say so far. There's some nuggets to consider in it.

Quote: "Modern safe deposit locks are multi-levered and toothed to make them almost impossible to pick. If keys are lost a locksmith drills out the locks or punches them out. New locks are then installed. This is very expensive. I do not know if the 1920 ones were that tough. Maybe they can be picked... There are two keyholes per lock. The ones closet to the hinge are usually keyed all alike and that is the key the banker carries into the vault with you.


The key you bring opens the other lock. They are like two deadbolts in the same case. If you can find the bank's key, you are halfway there. It may be that all but one set are locked in one of the compartments. If the bank moved up the street, go and ask them. Or, call up local locksmiths and find out who worked on them. They may know what happened to the keys. Check with the Real Estate Person who handled the sale.


They might be in a safe in the vault. Don't start wrecking things till you search for clues. Maybe they are in the burglar alarm case in the vault or in their numbered envelopes in a file cabinet. They are too important to toss. Look on top of the unit."

End quote.

I'd love to examine the door that was drilled and removed, to see if I'm right about the bolt(s) being only on the hinge side. I cannot wait to hear what you find!

Steve S

[delraydella]

Thanks!!!

I will certainly pass that information on to the head cheeses over there. Unfortunately I won't be able to get over there for a closer look until the first or second week of June. I don't know what will happen while I'm gone, but I do know they have brought in other people to look at getting the whole units out of the vault for me to cut the backs off of.

We'll see! Tell your brother Thanks!

Other Steve

[krazziee]

this is getting good here,im with steve, i wish i was there as well. i would like to see for myself too,
the doors are very nice so i understand the need for being careful.
i like the removing the hinge pins idea, but if there are three bolts and most likely there are, that idea will not work.

i have another thought for you.... ready for this ...... out of the box kinda thing ...

you are already inside with the one door off. plasma cut the inside of the boxes out of the way next door, left, right, top, and bottom, and work on them from the inside. you have one off so you can see how they are fitted and locked. the first ones would be tough but as you remove them cut away everything in the way as you go.
what do you think about doing this,
trying to help
Richard

[delraydella]

Just an update, as of last week the boxes were somehow pulled out from the walls of the vault and are being palleted as we speak. Because we are swamped with work for the next 2 weeks, they're being delivered to a warehouse. Once I'm done with this job I'll bring them to the shop and start to work on them. I'll have a lot more information then as they'll be right in front of me!

Other Steve

[krazziee]

great, I have been thinking about that project and how it is going for you.
I hope it all goes well for you, please keep us updated.
thanks
Richard

[delraydella]

I went over to see the pile. The boxes got taken out of the wall by the demo guys and got put on a flatbed by machinery riggers. On first glance, it looks like Steve S. was right about the hinge pins. I'll know more when I get them in the shop.

[delraydella]

Here's one more of the entire pile... I have to get 2 forklifts now. One to put them on a truck from where they are stored and another to get them off the truck where they are going.

[Otto Nobedder]

Steve,

While there's little more I enjoy than thinking to myself, "I told you..."

The larger boxes may have multiple bolts. Logic says, "no", if it works for one it'll work for all, in 1920's technology.

Thanks for the update, and I look forward to hearing how this project progresses!

Steve S

[Alexa]

Delraydella.

It is a relief knowing that you will be working in your shop for this project.
While following your string evolve over these weeks, for some reason or another, I was imagining you having to do the work on site.

Keep us informed.
Alexa

[krazziee]

nice , seems like it is working out, good that you were able to remove them from the building and work at your shop.
very nice
Richard

[delraydella]

The budget for this whole thing got slashed, so no forklifts, no trip to the shop to plasma cut them.....I have to take the doors off on site, now. But fortunately I was screwing around with them today and found an easy way to remove the doors.
If you look at the picture below. on the very right edge of the unit, there is a bolted on strip where you see the vertical row of doors and their hinge pins. I took off this strip and exposed the hinge bolts and drilled those out. The doors popped right out! There was only one latch going into the frame. I didn't bring a camera, but next time I go over I'll take some pictures. The doors are solid brass and I think the big ones weigh about 15 pounds each!

[krazziee]

very nice and very lucky there,
thanks for the info.
good luck
Richard

[delraydella]

Here's an update on the job. We eventually wound up drilling out the hinge screws on all of the doors and they just popped right out. It was a lot of drilling!

We got to the back side of the hinge screws by removing a metal strip as the 1st picture shows. From there it was pretty easy to drill out the hinge screws. You can see the screw bottoms in #2. Picture#3 is just a small section of doors that we drilled out. There were about a 1000 of them altogether, all different sizes.


From here, the doors go to the shop, get arranged into tabletops and I'll start welding the frames for those next week.

Other Steve

[delraydella]

And.....just to prove that you can get romance points with your significant other in just about any situation if you try....

I found my girlfriends and my birthday numbers on the doors and I pulled the box with her numbers. Now I'll make our own private safe deposit boxes for us! Sure, I know it's stupid, but it shows her I think of her no matter what I'm doing!

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic....

Other Steve