Hey everyone!
I'm brand new to welding (amateur hour over here) and this forum.
I am good at wearing respirators generally and the first thing I purchased after getting a cheap mig/flux core wire feed welder (for my birthday), other than an auto darkening hood and cart, was a GVS Elipse LPR100 respirator.
My first project was to weld up a dumbell rack, which went reasonably well, but I did the cutting and grinding in my garage with abrasive wheels on a chop saw and angle grinder, as well as a flap disc. I wear all of the required PPE, such as respirator, safety glasses, face shield, hood when welding, ear plugs, welding gloves and an FR hoodie...I could/need to invest in a leather apron.
Anyways, it is quite cold here in Canada, so I had my overhead door closed and I generated quite a bit of dust and flux core fumes. I would say I opened the overhead to clear the air after every few welds. I could smell the fumes through my respirator.
Anyways, I started getting a little concerned about the amount of dust generated and was curious about hazards to others who use the garage to park their vehicle and exposure to dust that may hang in the air. I'm most worried about silica from the abrasive discs, but my research tells me that silicon carbide is reserved for masonry cut-off and grinding wheels?
This is a hobby for me, so I think I will move cutting and grinding outside and am in the process of rigging up a fume extractor to vent out my window.
Am I being overly cautious? In other words, as long as I continue to wear my respirator and extract welding fumes, is there any danger to myself and or others from the dust that may linger in the garage?
Sorry for being a worry wart!
Andrew
Just a thought . . . start cutting with a metal cutting wheel such as the Lenox or Diablo blades. I stop using cutoff discs for the debris and air pollution reasons. I got tired of cleaning up the mess left by the cutoff wheels.
I hope this helps . . .
I hope this helps . . .
Not only can the welding fumes be detrimental to your health long term, the sparks from cutting and grinding will ABSOLUTELY tear up automotive windows. The sparks are molten steel and they fly farther than you think. Cover the vehicles with flame retardant blankets or move them outdoors (or yourself).
Since you are new, it is imperative that you NEVER, EVER weld anything galvanized. Doing so will kill you. You must grind it off completely, front, back and edges down to bright shiny metal. And don’t use chlorinated cleaners (Brake Kleen). This create another toxic fume. You can use the non-chlorinated type safely.
I saw your earlier post about the new welder, congrats! But I must suggest, if that machine is a 120v, 90 amp box, welding a dumbbell rack may be beyond its capabilities. Do a test. Weld up two pieces. Clamp one in a vise, and smash on it with a hammer, or use a lever and try to snap it. Does it hold up? And I mean abuse the dog piss out of it. You’re putting your safety under these welds. Be dead sure as a new welder that you take these cautions before you weld “structural” things.
I too encourage you to ditch the abrasive blade and get a true metal cutting blade. It will run about $60. And use some type of true cutting fluid with it. If you go to Princess Auto, they might have a section for plumbing, look for the black iron pipe area, and get a bottle of thread cutting oil. It’s dark, sulphur rich stuff, and it works fabulously. And it is cheap. Wipe it clean before welding though.
Since you are new, it is imperative that you NEVER, EVER weld anything galvanized. Doing so will kill you. You must grind it off completely, front, back and edges down to bright shiny metal. And don’t use chlorinated cleaners (Brake Kleen). This create another toxic fume. You can use the non-chlorinated type safely.
I saw your earlier post about the new welder, congrats! But I must suggest, if that machine is a 120v, 90 amp box, welding a dumbbell rack may be beyond its capabilities. Do a test. Weld up two pieces. Clamp one in a vise, and smash on it with a hammer, or use a lever and try to snap it. Does it hold up? And I mean abuse the dog piss out of it. You’re putting your safety under these welds. Be dead sure as a new welder that you take these cautions before you weld “structural” things.
I too encourage you to ditch the abrasive blade and get a true metal cutting blade. It will run about $60. And use some type of true cutting fluid with it. If you go to Princess Auto, they might have a section for plumbing, look for the black iron pipe area, and get a bottle of thread cutting oil. It’s dark, sulphur rich stuff, and it works fabulously. And it is cheap. Wipe it clean before welding though.
You are not being overly cautious. If you can smell the welding fumes through your respirator filters, you don't have enough filtration (not usually the problem), but rather you don't have enough clean air to dilute the fumes. Create a clean-air exchange system asap, is what I recommend.
I will look into those diablo blades for sure. Can you use them in high rpm tools such as angle grinders and chop saws designed for abrasive blades? I don't have access to a dry cut saw and am not sure if I can justify the expense just yet.
I always move all vehicles out of the garage...wouldn't want to screw the paint or glass.
I was definitely aware of not welding anything galvanized or chrome plated or stainless, but it is a good reminder for people who may not be aware. I have seen so many people on YouTube welding plated bolts and nuts and washers. I've heard strong vinegar can also remove the zinc plating by soaking for a few hours, though I'd rather drive across the city to purchase bare stuff.
As for the rack, I really want to try some destructive testing, but it is also nothing that would put me at risk in terms of injury as it's not like a squat rack or bench press that I'm getting my body underneath. I've put the heavier weights on the bottom rack that are 8" off the ground. I put my full body weight and jumped up and down on it, haha. Me and the fiance are slowly buying weights because all of the gyms are closed around us.
I've bought a 6" 390 cfm inline fan that I'll hook up to ducting to vent through my window and I'll set the end about 12" from my work to pull the fumes away from my face. For fresh air I'll crack the garage door open. Obviously having the door fully open would be preferred...that will be my number one task before doing any further welding.
I always move all vehicles out of the garage...wouldn't want to screw the paint or glass.
I was definitely aware of not welding anything galvanized or chrome plated or stainless, but it is a good reminder for people who may not be aware. I have seen so many people on YouTube welding plated bolts and nuts and washers. I've heard strong vinegar can also remove the zinc plating by soaking for a few hours, though I'd rather drive across the city to purchase bare stuff.
As for the rack, I really want to try some destructive testing, but it is also nothing that would put me at risk in terms of injury as it's not like a squat rack or bench press that I'm getting my body underneath. I've put the heavier weights on the bottom rack that are 8" off the ground. I put my full body weight and jumped up and down on it, haha. Me and the fiance are slowly buying weights because all of the gyms are closed around us.
I've bought a 6" 390 cfm inline fan that I'll hook up to ducting to vent through my window and I'll set the end about 12" from my work to pull the fumes away from my face. For fresh air I'll crack the garage door open. Obviously having the door fully open would be preferred...that will be my number one task before doing any further welding.
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Sounds like you are taking PPE seriously which is a good thing. Make sure your respirator fits well, you shouldn't be able to smell anything for the most part. Keep your skin covered (which sounds like you are doing). To me it sounds like you are taking the right precautions and shouldn't be at major risk. Keep in mind that when you read an SDS ((safety data sheet) or OSHA precautions they are referring to workplace environments where people are exposed to contaminants daily. If you are a hobby guy like a lot of us here, just keep taking PPE and safety seriously and you will likely be just fine. At least thats what i tell myself anyways.. Do read any SDS you when you get them since they will tell you the appropriate PPE for the material in hand.
Definitely prefer to grind outside to minimize risk and even weld when possible. I only tig weld in the garage everything else is done outside. Any fume, grinding dust, or tiny chip producing operation just fit your respirator. Wear it while you sweep up too. I would leave the door open during said operations as well, including welding and have a fan blowing across you out the door. the cold thing I can't help you there. Layer up friend.
Definitely prefer to grind outside to minimize risk and even weld when possible. I only tig weld in the garage everything else is done outside. Any fume, grinding dust, or tiny chip producing operation just fit your respirator. Wear it while you sweep up too. I would leave the door open during said operations as well, including welding and have a fan blowing across you out the door. the cold thing I can't help you there. Layer up friend.
Those blades will run in chop saws. For your angle grinder, stay with the abrasive discs. If you buy them, the 0.040 thick blades cut better and faster than the 0.060 blades.Duey1083 wrote:I will look into those diablo blades for sure. Can you use them in high rpm tools such as angle grinders and chop saws designed for abrasive blades? I don't have access to a dry cut saw and am not sure if I can justify the expense just yet.
I see you used angle iron, and now understand the "rack". Yeah, that looks plenty safe. I was thinking squat rack or bench press type equipment. Good on you, that rack looks solid, safe and came out nicely.As for the rack, I really want to try some destructive testing, but it is also nothing that would put me at risk in terms of injury as it's not like a squat rack or bench press that I'm getting my body underneath. I've put the heavier weights on the bottom rack that are 8" off the ground. I put my full body weight and jumped up and down on it, haha. Me and the fiance are slowly buying weights because all of the gyms are closed around us.
Each blade should have a max RPM rating printed on it (usually, the bigger the blade diameter, the slower the max RPM will be). The saw should also have a RPM speed either on it, or one you can find it online or in the manual. Make sure to not exceed the max RPM limit for the blades.Duey1083 wrote:I will look into those diablo blades for sure. Can you use them in high rpm tools such as angle grinders and chop saws designed for abrasive blades? I don't have access to a dry cut saw and am not sure if I can justify the expense just yet.
I have both an abrasive cutoff saw and a recently purchased carbide blade saw. The abrasive saw is like 3600rpm and the blade saw is around 1400 iirc. Both are large diameter blades, around 14". I would not use the saw blade in the abrasive saw. That's WAY too fast for the blade with teeth.
Thanks guys!
For sure i would never weld anything that would put me or my loved ones at risk. I am a LONG way away from there. Even that dumbell rack has pretty ugly first time welds that I may redo one day...I really need that 20 amp circuit in my garage to increase the heat from the welder. I'm also eager to create a work bench so I can set up my vice and do destructive testing.
I always wear a respirator when sweeping up too! I hate that dusty feeling and it's just not good to breathe in. I'm not sure if the GVS respirator I bought comes with the P100 filters that also handle nuisance OV...the replacement cartridges do though, so maybe I'll swap em out and try.
Yeah, I did a quick check and those cold cut blade max rpms are too slow for the machines I have. Luckily, I don't own the abrasive chop saw and I checked the price on an evolution saw...they're less money than I thought, so when the time comes, I'll pay for one of those.
This weekend, I will cut some steel and build my DIY fume extractor that will exhaust through my garage window. Should be a cool project!
Thanks gents! This forum is awesome and I look forward to developing and learning!
Andrew
For sure i would never weld anything that would put me or my loved ones at risk. I am a LONG way away from there. Even that dumbell rack has pretty ugly first time welds that I may redo one day...I really need that 20 amp circuit in my garage to increase the heat from the welder. I'm also eager to create a work bench so I can set up my vice and do destructive testing.
I always wear a respirator when sweeping up too! I hate that dusty feeling and it's just not good to breathe in. I'm not sure if the GVS respirator I bought comes with the P100 filters that also handle nuisance OV...the replacement cartridges do though, so maybe I'll swap em out and try.
Yeah, I did a quick check and those cold cut blade max rpms are too slow for the machines I have. Luckily, I don't own the abrasive chop saw and I checked the price on an evolution saw...they're less money than I thought, so when the time comes, I'll pay for one of those.
This weekend, I will cut some steel and build my DIY fume extractor that will exhaust through my garage window. Should be a cool project!
Thanks gents! This forum is awesome and I look forward to developing and learning!
Andrew
I have a thread here that's still on the front page dealing with the Evo Saws. Do check that out before buying one... There's a cheapo old version that needs work and a newer one that's much nicer.
Especially page 2.
https://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ ... 29&t=15904
Especially page 2.
https://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ ... 29&t=15904
I think I understand now. I'm actually going to go and buy a Ryobi 7 1/4" compound miter saw with one of the diablo blades. The saw doesnt exceed the max rpm of the blade and I am sold on the way they cut.
Ryobi saw is $138 canadian pesos and the blade is $50. Plus I can do a lot of different styles of cuts with the compound mitre and will not create the mess I wanted to avoid.
Thank you all SO much!
Ryobi saw is $138 canadian pesos and the blade is $50. Plus I can do a lot of different styles of cuts with the compound mitre and will not create the mess I wanted to avoid.
Thank you all SO much!
If you go that route, keep in mind that you will still likely need a way to securely clamp the material when cutting. Those more traditional saws tend to not have the built in vises. You are at a high risk of damaging the carbide teeth if the material is allowed to move around at all when cutting.Duey1083 wrote:I think I understand now. I'm actually going to go and buy a Ryobi 7 1/4" compound miter saw with one of the diablo blades. The saw doesnt exceed the max rpm of the blade and I am sold on the way they cut.
Edit: Also keep in mind the power rating of the saw. If you get a Ryobi running on maybe only 8 or 10 amps, expect it to complain a lot as compared to a 15 amp saw that is designed for metal cutting.
This little combo did an amazing job! At least 28 cuts later, got this 2x2x125 square tubing cut for ny next project, which will be my work / welding bench.
This is a 7 1/4 10 amp Ryobi compound mitre saw with a Diablo Steel Demon blade. After all those cuts, the blade needs to be honed, but not bad for $200 Canadian (saw and blade). The saw didnt skip a beat, though now has a few battle burns.
This won't replace the long lasting blades of cold cut saws, there are way more sparks than those cold cuts, but the metal dust is mostly shards and leaves clean edges! This combination also cuts quick. This is a viable option for those of us who do this as a hobby with no production welding or cutting.
I enjoyed this WAY more than the abrasive saw and angle grinder
Off to get the blade honed now, lol.
Electrician comes next week, so I'll be able to amp my welder up for this material.
This is a 7 1/4 10 amp Ryobi compound mitre saw with a Diablo Steel Demon blade. After all those cuts, the blade needs to be honed, but not bad for $200 Canadian (saw and blade). The saw didnt skip a beat, though now has a few battle burns.
This won't replace the long lasting blades of cold cut saws, there are way more sparks than those cold cuts, but the metal dust is mostly shards and leaves clean edges! This combination also cuts quick. This is a viable option for those of us who do this as a hobby with no production welding or cutting.
I enjoyed this WAY more than the abrasive saw and angle grinder
Off to get the blade honed now, lol.
Electrician comes next week, so I'll be able to amp my welder up for this material.
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That saw still turns way too fast IMO, even if it less than the RPM limit of the blade. You should not need to hone the carbide teeth after so few cuts. The ideal RPM for a 7¼ " metal cutting blade is about 2,500 RPMs. Does yours have the titanium carbide tips on the teeth, or the Cermet II tips?
You guys are right. This definitely isn't an ideal use of this saw and blade combo. I knew it was a compromise and that a proper cold cut saw would have been much better, but they're not widely available here. Princess Auto (Canadian version of Harbor Freight) used to sell one for pretty cheap, but it's no longer available.
I needed a compound mitre saw anyways, as I'll be developing the basement with my dad soon.
Meh, it is what it is...it did a good job while it lasted! It does have a few more cuts in it too. I could have cut the tubing differently to make it last longer too. We live and learn.
Would you guys recommend a cold cut chop saw or a band saw for the shop? I know the chop saws are faster...but which do you most recommend?
I needed a compound mitre saw anyways, as I'll be developing the basement with my dad soon.
Meh, it is what it is...it did a good job while it lasted! It does have a few more cuts in it too. I could have cut the tubing differently to make it last longer too. We live and learn.
Would you guys recommend a cold cut chop saw or a band saw for the shop? I know the chop saws are faster...but which do you most recommend?
Bandsaw.Duey1083 wrote:Would you guys recommend a cold cut chop saw or a band saw for the shop? I know the chop saws are faster...but which do you most recommend?
I use them for both job-shop work and production work. Cut up 88 linear feet into 344 parts yesterday...mostly while I was working on other things. Use nesting to your advantage.
Would the cutting fluid make a mess of the mitre saw?cj737 wrote:Duey, make sure to use cutting fluid. It will do wonders for the longevity of your blade.
For a hobby guy, would you guys just recommend a deep cut portable band saw? I've seen people make stands for these, so that could potentially be another project for me after I build the table.
So I did some quick math based on rotational speeds of a 14" dry cut saw vs my 7 1/4" miter saw. At 1600 rpm, the linear speed of the dry cut saw cutting tips would be ~11,200 inches / min. My mitre saw, assuming a loaded rotational speed of 5,000 rpm, the linear speed of the cutting tips would be ~18,125 inches / min. Or 1.6 times faster than the dry cut saw.
So, definitely not optimal, but despite the rotational velocity being > 3 times that of the dry cut saw, the teeth are only moving 1.6 times faster. If course there are other variables, such as fewer teeth and smaller blade area, so the blade and teeth would heat up WAY quicker on the set up I used yesterday.
Anyways, that's enough nerding out for a Saturday...where's my beer
My blade has the Cermit II Carbide tips.Oscar wrote:That saw still turns way too fast IMO, even if it less than the RPM limit of the blade. You should not need to hone the carbide teeth after so few cuts. The ideal RPM for a 7¼ " metal cutting blade is about 2,500 RPMs. Does yours have the titanium carbide tips on the teeth, or the Cermet II tips?
That's a shame because those blades are awesome! I use those same ones in the 14" dry cut metal chop saw, and with stick wax lubricant they're been holding up great. WD Quinn does great job sharpening the tips on these kinds of blades. They did my old Evolution 36-tooth multi-purpose blade, and it came back better than new!
I'll do some phoning around the city next week...I'm sure I can still service the blade. Looking at it it doesn't look too bad. If it can be sharpened for a reasonable price, then it's still a viable option for a guy not doing too much. If I rotated my steel by 45 degrees to cut it as a diamond shape, it would have lasted longer I think...it's cutting the flats that really heat the blade up.Oscar wrote:That's a shame because those blades are awesome! I use those same ones in the 14" dry cut metal chop saw, and with stick wax lubricant they're been holding up great. WD Quinn does great job sharpening the tips on these kinds of blades. They did my old Evolution 36-tooth multi-purpose blade, and it came back better than new!
These 7 1/4" blades were designed to be used in circular saws...maybe a cordless tool would be better since most spin slower.
Plus the blade can always be retired to cut wood as well, and I would think it would do decently well at that.
I'll look into some wax type lubricants as well.
Thanks for all the insight guys...this is an awesome forum and I love learning, even if it's the hard way.
