Hi fellas! I'm Greg, new guy on the site and I was referred here by none other than Fat Bob himself! I have NO welding experience other than getting the run around on things I need to have done. I'm adopting a do it yourself attitude and getting to work! A friend of mine gave me the welder he learned on (for $70). I'm not a budding professional; I just want to be able to weld tabs for my bike and the occassional auto sheetmetal. Oh btw, my welder is a chicago electric flux wire welder. All I'd ever heard of was Miller,so...
...anyway go easy guys! looking forward to having a great learning experience!
- Otto Nobedder
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Weldmonger
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Joined:Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 pm
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Location:Near New Orleans
Welcome aboard!
That flux-core machine is not the best choice for auto sheet metal, but it CAN be done! To have the best machine for every job, we'd all have a shop-full, and no room to work!
Steve S
That flux-core machine is not the best choice for auto sheet metal, but it CAN be done! To have the best machine for every job, we'd all have a shop-full, and no room to work!
Steve S
Hey Greg, WELCOME to the Funny Farm! Seriously, there's a ton of good advice around here and more talent than I'll ever have. I'm kind of like Frank,(any of them on CC) so old I can't hardly pay attention. 
Forget the flux core for what you're going and learn to Tig...or ask for help around here. Someone may be close by and help you out. Tig's the only way you'll keep tabs or anything else on your ride.
Welcome aboard!
Forget the flux core for what you're going and learn to Tig...or ask for help around here. Someone may be close by and help you out. Tig's the only way you'll keep tabs or anything else on your ride.
Welcome aboard!
Go break something, then you can weld it back the right way.
First welcome aboard.Fat Bob wrote:Tig's the only way you'll keep tabs or anything else on your ride.
As far as your statement Bob? Sorry but that's total BS! Tig is just another welding process. Not
the only process. There is nothing wrong with GMAW when done properly. Same can be said for
SMAW. I personally have miles of x-ray welds under my belt with SMAW, GMAW, GTAW and SAW.
There are a lot of bikes still on the road that were built long before GTAW was around. Many frames
were furnace brazed back in the day.
Tell that to all the BBC owners that have had the necks break on their bikes going down the road rake.
...It started with front fender tabs coming off, front end failures and frame structural issues. I have a friend that worked for that J.A. Kieth and his heifer and how do you think ALL of their welds were made? That's right, GMAW because it "looked" better, was easier and faster to do.
It's to easy for a new person to lay down what "looks" like a good bead with GMAW and have a cold joint. As far as your " miles of x-ray welds under my belt" good for you. Do you really think a backyard scooter tramp is going to have his work x-rayed ? Sorry- no point a splatter for me thank you very much.
...It started with front fender tabs coming off, front end failures and frame structural issues. I have a friend that worked for that J.A. Kieth and his heifer and how do you think ALL of their welds were made? That's right, GMAW because it "looked" better, was easier and faster to do.
It's to easy for a new person to lay down what "looks" like a good bead with GMAW and have a cold joint. As far as your " miles of x-ray welds under my belt" good for you. Do you really think a backyard scooter tramp is going to have his work x-rayed ? Sorry- no point a splatter for me thank you very much.
Go break something, then you can weld it back the right way.
ANOTHER SITE'S OPINION
"...
Problem #5: What type of welding method is best for frame building - Gas, Stick, MIG or TIG?
(...)
A: The welding methods vary as much as the materials. Basic material like mild steel is open to virtually all types of welding methods, Gas, Stick, Mig Welding, and Tig Welding. Materials like chrom-moly or stainless require more precise/advanced forms of welding methods such as Mig or Tig. Methods like Gas or Stick are not recommended for frame fabrication.
(...)
Wire feed - Mig (gas not flux core) is the most common in basic fabrication and adapts to a wider range of materials. Tig welding is by far the most desirable for a quality weld on any material...
(...)
In some shops, when welding mild steel or chrom-moly, they will use Mig to 'tack' materials together and use Tig for the final finish weld. It is recommended that you 'move around' when welding. This means complete a weld at the neck, and then move to an area like an engine mount and so on. This evenly distributes the heat generated by the welding process and will greatly reduce the possibility of any warping or twisting. Leave the frame in the jig until all material is cool to the touch.
(...)
With any welding method, practice is a must. Take your time to become comfortable with the welding method, equipment and material. It's more important to do it right the first time. 'Fast' comes with practice.
..."
Source of above quote:
http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com/bi ... -tips.html
"...
Problem #5: What type of welding method is best for frame building - Gas, Stick, MIG or TIG?
(...)
A: The welding methods vary as much as the materials. Basic material like mild steel is open to virtually all types of welding methods, Gas, Stick, Mig Welding, and Tig Welding. Materials like chrom-moly or stainless require more precise/advanced forms of welding methods such as Mig or Tig. Methods like Gas or Stick are not recommended for frame fabrication.
(...)
Wire feed - Mig (gas not flux core) is the most common in basic fabrication and adapts to a wider range of materials. Tig welding is by far the most desirable for a quality weld on any material...
(...)
In some shops, when welding mild steel or chrom-moly, they will use Mig to 'tack' materials together and use Tig for the final finish weld. It is recommended that you 'move around' when welding. This means complete a weld at the neck, and then move to an area like an engine mount and so on. This evenly distributes the heat generated by the welding process and will greatly reduce the possibility of any warping or twisting. Leave the frame in the jig until all material is cool to the touch.
(...)
With any welding method, practice is a must. Take your time to become comfortable with the welding method, equipment and material. It's more important to do it right the first time. 'Fast' comes with practice.
..."
Source of above quote:
http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com/bi ... -tips.html
Bob you can't blame the process because one guy does it wrong. Way too anecdotal and biased.
There was a company making frames called Talon. All tig welded with the purdiest little stacks of dimes you ever did see.
Guess what? They all broke with about zero penetration. I tell everybody starting out. Weld up some test samples and take
a sledgehammer to them. I've got a goosenecked, hardhead chopper frame that I welded the neck on it with 7018 3/32".
That was 5 years ago and I'm still riding it. That's right it was stick welded. Tig is a welding process. Not the only welding process.
Done correctly they all have their place.
There was a company making frames called Talon. All tig welded with the purdiest little stacks of dimes you ever did see.
Guess what? They all broke with about zero penetration. I tell everybody starting out. Weld up some test samples and take
a sledgehammer to them. I've got a goosenecked, hardhead chopper frame that I welded the neck on it with 7018 3/32".
That was 5 years ago and I'm still riding it. That's right it was stick welded. Tig is a welding process. Not the only welding process.
Done correctly they all have their place.
- weldin mike 27
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Weldmonger
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Posts:
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Joined:Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:59 pm
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Location:Australia; Victoria
Hey,
Rake, you last statement was spot on. Mig is probably put into the "crap" catigory because of the point and shoot factor. But if you give a welding job to an experienced welder, who follows all guide lines, those parts will never break. As Jody has said, there is no "Welding Police" who kick down your door if you make a weld wrong. Its just that mig "looks" welded. Where as a bad stick weld will.have slag inclusions and a bad tig weld will have undercut.and porosity . Each process used right will be fine.
Mick
Rake, you last statement was spot on. Mig is probably put into the "crap" catigory because of the point and shoot factor. But if you give a welding job to an experienced welder, who follows all guide lines, those parts will never break. As Jody has said, there is no "Welding Police" who kick down your door if you make a weld wrong. Its just that mig "looks" welded. Where as a bad stick weld will.have slag inclusions and a bad tig weld will have undercut.and porosity . Each process used right will be fine.
Mick
- Otto Nobedder
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Weldmonger
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Posts:
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Joined:Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 pm
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Location:Near New Orleans
FatBob,
Those welds failed because of the operator, not the process. A carpenter shouldn't blame the hammer.
Some processes are better suited for some metals, but a welder knows what will and won't work, and how to use the tools. There is no reason for a properly done MIG weld to fail as it did in that picture, unless the base metal was SERIOUSLY sub-standard.
Not defending MIG for this process, as I agree with you, but a properly done MIG weld would not have failed before the frame tubes. This is unqualified people doing the work.
Steve S
Those welds failed because of the operator, not the process. A carpenter shouldn't blame the hammer.
Some processes are better suited for some metals, but a welder knows what will and won't work, and how to use the tools. There is no reason for a properly done MIG weld to fail as it did in that picture, unless the base metal was SERIOUSLY sub-standard.
Not defending MIG for this process, as I agree with you, but a properly done MIG weld would not have failed before the frame tubes. This is unqualified people doing the work.
Steve S
Actually there kind of are. It's called the legal system. Big Bear Chopper (BBC) went bankrupt from all the liability lawsuits.weldin mike 27 wrote:...As Jody has said, there is no "Welding Police" who kick down your door if you make a weld wrong. Its just that mig "looks" welded. ...
Agreed but somehow I don't think the hundreds of injured or the families of those that died would really care.Otto Nobedder wrote:FatBob,
Those welds failed because of the operator, not the process....
This topic needs split and put into General, the OP is probably looking at this and thinking WTF happened here.
Welcome Greg! Sorry for the hijack.
Go break something, then you can weld it back the right way.