[Nations]

We have already posted on an item we are trying to build and have gotten great feedback. I have added a new photo here trying to decide if a MIG welder can achieve this type of weld. Being in Fairbanks we do not have of equipment choices. There is a MIG avail at Home Depot.

On a side note, we have been brazing copper but that look is not working. This weld on the photo with the washer will be covered up, however, the side pieces that T into the ring will not be covered and need to be as clean as possible. EVEN if we need to wire brush the welds to clean them up.

I can not find a TIG welder in the city....The are some Lincoln Stick Welders on Craigslist....The Gauge wire is 12 gauge.

That is the project. We will be starting out slow and moving into production once products starts to move. My name is Doug and my leather shop is Nations Leather. Thanks for any help. I have appreciated all the responses so far. This looks to be a strong forum.

[tungstendipper]

Welcome.
Get a TIG machine.

[cj737]

As precise as that small weld needs to be, a MIG (hard wire or flux core) will be tricky to use. You'll very likely end up with a fair amount of weld to clean off and/or grind to make it unnoticeable. I appreciate that you may struggle to find a TIG box locally, but you would be far better off with TIG, thus you probably need to order one online and suck up the shipping.

You would also need a bottle of Argon too for TIG. A small 120v TIG box will easily do what you need. Sorry to be the bearer of unwanted news.

[907DAVE]

From NP here. Don't forget to swing by Matheson, Air Liquide and even Napa. There are plenty of options in town for the legacy brand welders at prices comparable to online.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[Nations]

As precise as that small weld needs to be, a MIG (hard wire or flux core) will be tricky to use. You'll very likely end up with a fair amount of weld to clean off and/or grind to make it unnoticeable. I appreciate that you may struggle to find a TIG box locally, but you would be far better off with TIG, thus you probably need to order one online and suck up the shipping.

You would also need a bottle of Argon too for TIG. A small 120v TIG box will easily do what you need. Sorry to be the bearer of unwanted news.

That is actually good news. I am just impatient. If TIG is the feller...Then TIG it is. If anyone has recommendations on small outfits please shout out and thanks again.

[AndersK]

My first choice would be Tig but Oxygen/Acetylene would work too, and most likely to be found close.

If you are on Instagram look for @mikechallgren he does some awesome aircraft models from that size of wire.

You don't need to have Instagram, just Google his username and you will be able to view his work.

I'm pretty sure Mike is a member here too but haven't seen him around for a while. Couldn't find his username here so I might be wrong.

Good luck, and welcome

[Nations]

My first choice would be Tig but Oxygen/Acetylene would work too, and most likely to be found close.

If you are on Instagram look for @mikechallgren he does some awesome aircraft models from that size of wire.

You don't need to have Instagram, just Google his username and you will be able to view his work.

I'm pretty sure Mike is a member here too but haven't seen him around for a while. Couldn't find his username here so I might be wrong.

Good luck, and welcome

Thank you. I took a look at his Insta and his stuff is closer to anything I have seen yet. We are using MAPP gas which is taking to long to heat up and is blowing the wire out of proportion. I sent him a message to see what tips he might have. Thank you for your help. Doug

[Artie F. Emm]

Is there a front and a back, any way to hide the weld from the viewer?

[Nations]

Is there a front and a back, any way to hide the weld from the viewer?

Yes, it will be wrapped with material except for the washer top. We can always paint it the welding discolors it greatly. The biggest issue is am I able to clean up the weld with a wire brush/ Dremel/ whatever. Do you have an idea? Thanks

[AndersK]

A wire brush will make the metal shiny in no time

[Nations]

A wire brush will make the metal shiny in no time

Wow! Those pieces are awesome. I loved up the little acetylene torch that guy was using and it might be perfect. Thank you so much for your help today. I will post what direction I go after praying about it. Thanks again. Doug

[Nations]

From NP here. Don't forget to swing by Matheson, Air Liquide and even Napa. There are plenty of options in town for the legacy brand welders at prices comparable to online.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Hey NP. I don't know how I missed your post. Thank you for responding. I meant to say that I can't find a TIG here under 2grand. My budget is around the Oxy/acetylene level right now. Is Matheson now Airgas? I can't find them. Anyway, thanks again for your tips.

[Artie F. Emm]

I can't find a TIG here under 2grand.

Not to influence your decision, just letting you know Home Depot (and others) sells welders online and ships to your store. Oxy acet is a fine choice too, just letting you know you have options.

[Nations]

I can't find a TIG here under 2grand.

Not to influence your decision, just letting you know Home Depot (and others) sells welders online and ships to your store. Oxy acet is a fine choice too, just letting you know you have options.

Thank you Artie, I think I am leaning to this kit. I've been brazing with Mapp but it just gets everything way too hot...and takes way too long. I'm hoping this will suit me needs. I think it comes with a #3 tip. Would you think this will be too big to braze? Thanks, Doug

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lincoln-Electr ... 1000119507

[Franz©]

Before you go to Lowes, let me point out Walmart will sell you a very similar torch set for nearly $100 less, and Walmart will take it back in 30 days if you're unhappy.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stark-Portab ... /984458682
You should also be aware it will cost nearly $50 to fill the 20 Oxygen and 10cf Acetylene, IF you have a gas supplier there who will fill cylinders he didn't sell. Gas fills can get a bit sticky on customer owned tanks. You need to look into that before you buy a torch set.

Secondly, that set is way too much torch for the job you're doing, lampshade frames.

You should really talk to local gas suppliers before you move ahead and learn what they will charge for a MC Prestolitr (10cf Acetylene) and a 20cf Oxygen. Ideally you want 40cf of oxygen to match up with 10ccf of Acetylene, but how many trips you want to make for gas is your choice. Just be aware going in a 10/20 setup probably won't give you more than half an hour of burn time.

My thinking is for your proposed job, a smaller torch such as this would be a far better choice.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Okeba-Jewele ... /539847086

It will use Map as a fuel gas, and presuming you have a regulator on your MAP you only need to add Oxygen and a regulator to complete the setup.

[Nations]

Before you go to Lowes, let me point out Walmart will sell you a very similar torch set for nearly $100 less, and Walmart will take it back in 30 days if you're unhappy.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stark-Portab ... /984458682
You should also be aware it will cost nearly $50 to fill the 20 Oxygen and 10cf Acetylene, IF you have a gas supplier there who will fill cylinders he didn't sell. Gas fills can get a bit sticky on customer owned tanks. You need to look into that before you buy a torch set.

Secondly, that set is way too much torch for the job you're doing, lampshade frames.

You should really talk to local gas suppliers before you move ahead and learn what they will charge for a MC Prestolitr (10cf Acetylene) and a 20cf Oxygen. Ideally you want 40cf of oxygen to match up with 10ccf of Acetylene, but how many trips you want to make for gas is your choice. Just be aware going in a 10/20 setup probably won't give you more than half an hour of burn time.

My thinking is for your proposed job, a smaller torch such as this would be a far better choice.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Okeba-Jewele ... /539847086

It will use Map as a fuel gas, and presuming you have a regulator on your MAP you only need to add Oxygen and a regulator to complete the setup.

Thank you Franz for your thoughts. I am afraid the Walmart brands are going to come with Overseas Tanks which mean no DOT stamp on the tank. The 10/20 setup I had not considered although I was concerned about the #3 torch tip which seems like it would be too large for the job. I am using MAPP right now and the burn is just not hot enough. When I look at burn temps with MAPP/Oxy it still seems like I need to be using Acetylene.

I spoke with a gentlemen using this setup and it looked to be a decent size (close to the one you listed). It seemed like it might be almost too small. https://store.cyberweld.com/smlito23.html

Where would I find more info about the 10/20 setup? Do you think this smaller setup would have the same 10/20 issues? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Forney-Ligh ... /205694687
I am learning here with everyone's help. Unfortunately, taking College courses is not just realistic for me. I have a leather shop to run and a house full of kids.

Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts you have, they are very helpful. Thanks Doug

[Franz©]

Doug, I will absolutely tell you the Smith torch is China product, and not a whole lot different from the small torch I referenced from Walmart.

Little known Secret, Walmart is working at beating McMaster at the game of selling to end users, and Walmart has an advantage with their trucking network. Walmart itself has no hands on with the product in most cases beyond pulling it from inventory and trucking it to the pickup desk or even your door.

If you were in Ancorage I have a man there who could give me information on gas suppliers, but I have nobody in Fairbanks.

Your first problem is cylinders (tanks) and how far you have to move them. The Acetylene side of all the small setups is a Prestolite cylinder, and you should be able to grab that cheap from somebody on Craigslist since the plumbing trade no longer solders much. Thet leaves you with Oxygen supply.
The burn ratio of Oxy to Acet is 4cf of Oxy to every 1 cf of Acetylene as a rule of thumb. The MC size Acet is 10 cf, so you'll need 40cf of Oxy to consume at a rate that will empty both bottles more or less equally so you can make 1 trip instead of 3. You want a 40cf oxygen, or a pair of 20s if you use a MC Prestolite.

You need to do a search and determine what supplier will work with you. If you can avoid Airgas & Praxair you will be ahead of the game. You need to know if they will fill customer owned cylinders they did not sell, and you might as well ask for prices on cylinders too while you're at it.

Once you find a gas source the rest becomes fairly easy.

[Nations]

Doug, I will absolutely tell you the Smith torch is China product, and not a whole lot different from the small torch I referenced from Walmart.

Little known Secret, Walmart is working at beating McMaster at the game of selling to end users, and Walmart has an advantage with their trucking network. Walmart itself has no hands on with the product in most cases beyond pulling it from inventory and trucking it to the pickup desk or even your door.

If you were in Ancorage I have a man there who could give me information on gas suppliers, but I have nobody in Fairbanks.

I think you lost me on that one. Smith Torches are now made in China? There are a lot of knockoff tiny torches made in China, but my understanding is Smith is still making these small torches here.

Also, The torch you referenced needs a series of regulators to be compatible with either disposable tanks or large tanks. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to hook up one of these to a large set of tanks.

The tanks will be filled at Airgas but they need to have correct stamping on them. (I spoke with them last week).

My only concern right now is finding the right quality torch for this small application. I couldn't find much info on the ratio you spoke of in regards to Gas Usage unless we are just talking about a Too Large Tip blowing out too much gas for such a small application.

Couldn't I just get a smaller tip?? or am I still using up too much fuel?? (that seems unlikely but I am all ears if you have experience.)

[Poland308]

Size of the tank only maters if you have a big torch running on small bottles. Running a small torch off of big bottles is totally ok. The regulator is required either way.

[Franz©]

Oxygen to fuel ratio is a fact of chemistry. It may not be exactly 4 to 1 with every fuel gas, but that rule of thumb will generally get you through the day.

Smith has been owned by IndoChina Thug Works (ITW) for a few years now, and like everything ITW touches they're whoring the Smith name and reputation while they attempt to meld Smith into the Miller family of brands.

The Lincoln backpack set you referenced is about 10x the torch you need to weld 2 pieces of 1/8 rod together, and too much torch will drive you nuts trying to work around it. If we catch a nice day here, I'll take a shot at the job with the smallest tip I own for my Smith Aircrafter and let you know how it runs. I also own one of the jewelry torches and if I can connect it up I'll see what that does. How thick is the center ring you're using? I don't have any thin filler rod, so I'll have to try .035 mig wire, but that should work.

Far as disposable cylinders go, they really are an entirely different class of equipment and the so called regulator that screws on top of the can isn't similar to a welding regulator. Size of tanks has no relevence to the pressure coming from the regulator, it's just a matter of storage of fuel and Oxygen. A dull Oxy cylinfer will show 2100 pounds of pressure, be it 20cf or 330cf. After the regulator it will be whatever the regulator is set at.

[Nations]

Oxygen to fuel ratio is a fact of chemistry. It may not be exactly 4 to 1 with every fuel gas, but that rule of thumb will generally get you through the day.

Smith has been owned by IndoChina Thug Works (ITW) for a few years now, and like everything ITW touches they're whoring the Smith name and reputation while they attempt to meld Smith into the Miller family of brands.

The Lincoln backpack set you referenced is about 10x the torch you need to weld 2 pieces of 1/8 rod together, and too much torch will drive you nuts trying to work around it. If we catch a nice day here, I'll take a shot at the job with the smallest tip I own for my Smith Aircrafter and let you know how it runs. I also own one of the jewelry torches and if I can connect it up I'll see what that does. How thick is the center ring you're using? I don't have any thin filler rod, so I'll have to try .035 mig wire, but that should work.

Far as disposable cylinders go, they really are an entirely different class of equipment and the so called regulator that screws on top of the can isn't similar to a welding regulator. Size of tanks has no relevence to the pressure coming from the regulator, it's just a matter of storage of fuel and Oxygen. A dull Oxy cylinfer will show 2100 pounds of pressure, be it 20cf or 330cf. After the regulator it will be whatever the regulator is set at.

I would hate to put you through the that trouble but thank you for the offer. Could I not take a big torch kit and just put a small tip on it? Would I still be overpowering the braze?

[Nations]

Size of the tank only maters if you have a big torch running on small bottles. Running a small torch off of big bottles is totally ok. The regulator is required either way.

Thank you for your response. I was hoping to by a bigger kit and put a smaller tip on it to braze the wire. I am not seeing this option on the kit I am looking to purchase, but in principle I would assume it would be a possibility.

[Franz©]

Oxygen to fuel ratio is a fact of chemistry. It may not be exactly 4 to 1 with every fuel gas, but that rule of thumb will generally get you through the day.

Smith has been owned by IndoChina Thug Works (ITW) for a few years now, and like everything ITW touches they're whoring the Smith name and reputation while they attempt to meld Smith into the Miller family of brands.

The Lincoln backpack set you referenced is about 10x the torch you need to weld 2 pieces of 1/8 rod together, and too much torch will drive you nuts trying to work around it. If we catch a nice day here, I'll take a shot at the job with the smallest tip I own for my Smith Aircrafter and let you know how it runs. I also own one of the jewelry torches and if I can connect it up I'll see what that does. How thick is the center ring you're using? I don't have any thin filler rod, so I'll have to try .035 mig wire, but that should work.

Far as disposable cylinders go, they really are an entirely different class of equipment and the so called regulator that screws on top of the can isn't similar to a welding regulator. Size of tanks has no relevence to the pressure coming from the regulator, it's just a matter of storage of fuel and Oxygen. A dull Oxy cylinfer will show 2100 pounds of pressure, be it 20cf or 330cf. After the regulator it will be whatever the regulator is set at.

I would hate to put you through the that trouble but thank you for the offer. Could I not take a big torch kit and just put a small tip on it? Would I still be overpowering the braze?

No great trouble, and you've aroused my curioscity of how many ways I can do it.

I'm thinking your present problems with brazing are primarily your choice of torch and probably filler material as well. If you're using something like a Turbotorch with MAP, your heat is far too spread out. If you got hold of a high temperature brass alloy, that compounds the problem. If the rod is flux coated you made the problem even worse.

The situation would be real easy to sort out if we were standing in the same room looking at the job. This way is a little harder and more time consuming.

[Nations]

Oxygen to fuel ratio is a fact of chemistry. It may not be exactly 4 to 1 with every fuel gas, but that rule of thumb will generally get you through the day.

Smith has been owned by IndoChina Thug Works (ITW) for a few years now, and like everything ITW touches they're whoring the Smith name and reputation while they attempt to meld Smith into the Miller family of brands.

The Lincoln backpack set you referenced is about 10x the torch you need to weld 2 pieces of 1/8 rod together, and too much torch will drive you nuts trying to work around it. If we catch a nice day here, I'll take a shot at the job with the smallest tip I own for my Smith Aircrafter and let you know how it runs. I also own one of the jewelry torches and if I can connect it up I'll see what that does. How thick is the center ring you're using? I don't have any thin filler rod, so I'll have to try .035 mig wire, but that should work.

Far as disposable cylinders go, they really are an entirely different class of equipment and the so called regulator that screws on top of the can isn't similar to a welding regulator. Size of tanks has no relevence to the pressure coming from the regulator, it's just a matter of storage of fuel and Oxygen. A dull Oxy cylinfer will show 2100 pounds of pressure, be it 20cf or 330cf. After the regulator it will be whatever the regulator is set at.

I would hate to put you through the that trouble but thank you for the offer. Could I not take a big torch kit and just put a small tip on it? Would I still be overpowering the braze?

No great trouble, and you've aroused my curioscity of how many ways I can do it.

I'm thinking your present problems with brazing are primarily your choice of torch and probably filler material as well. If you're using something like a Turbotorch with MAP, your heat is far too spread out. If you got hold of a high temperature brass alloy, that compounds the problem. If the rod is flux coated you made the problem even worse.

The situation would be real easy to sort out if we were standing in the same room looking at the job. This way is a little harder and more time consuming.

Yes. Yes. and Yes.
Bernzomatic Torch https://www.bernzomatic.com/Products/Ha ... Off/TS8000.
Flux covered rod from Home Depot. https://www.bernzomatic.com/Products/So ... g-Rods/WB5

I would actually continue down this path but the only problem is the ring in the middle with the three spokes coming out. That little washer and the three wires get so blowed out. On a small ring, which will be more of what I am wanting to do, It gets the ring so hot it either warps or busts open the previous braze job to start the circle.

One last thought, and thank you again for staying with me this long. Earlier in this thread, I got a tip on an individual that is doing wire air planes with the same type of wire. His process is much more intricate. He is using the small Smith torch and a larger torch going into oxy/acet. He also has a stationary shop. Have I mentioned that we travel the country in our bus with our leather shop? My shop is a trailer on wheels. So, the smaller set up with the disposable tanks sounds really nice if I can get the oxy/Mapp hot enough/quick enough to do the simple work. If not, I can buy new regulators and move into the
Oxy/acet tanks.

Thanks Franz again for your thoughts. I appreciate you staying with this. Doug

[Franz©]

Doug, hunt up a firebrick. A real one from an industrial boiler or furnace, not the crappy variety fireplaces and chimneys are lined with.
Rest assured a large part of your current problem is the Bernzomatic. Most of the rest is just not knowing how to set the job up to prevent problems.

Bus I can identify with, spent most of 3 years living in a Mod 9 MCI that was converted to my dwelling when I wasn't here. Did you know BUS stands for Big Ugly Sumbeach?
Since we're talking about buses and coaches, be aware there are some road tunnels in this country that will not appreciate you rolling through with compressed gas. Oddly they have no issue with camping trailers with 40 pounds of propane on the trailer, but they will attack and kill for a bottle of Acetylene.