Welding Tips and Tricks

I was on my friends cattle ranch recently. We had to repair a gate that a bull ran through. My friend used an old portable Lincoln stick welder, on a trailer. The only prep work that was done was to grind off some rust for the ground clamp. Otherwise, he and I just welded on top of all the rust. This was mostly on very old tubing and sucker rod. I had a hard time keeping an arch. I thought the power was a little low, but my friend didn't have the same issue as i did. He also would go back over like a cursive e pattern. Clearly, this brakes all the rules that I've seen on the videos and the show, but it still is done all over the world and would be interesting to weld and test the welds. I would like to know what pattern works best when welding over years of rust. Remember, its for fence line 150 feet long, corrals, and gates, and not inspected. The test is when the bull tries to hit it again, will it hold? Also, it has to last at least 40 years outside. Thanks,

There is no best pattern for welding on rusty metal. I've worked on lots of old pipe doing emergency patches where there's no time for cleanup. In situations like that the weld is likely much stronger than the surrounding metal. It becomes a guess based on previous experiences, cross referenced with urgency of the situation, divided by the importance of the repair, and multiplied by danger of or risks of a catastrophic failure.

Josh is right. There's no "best" procedure for rusty metal. I put beans on the table building (and repairing) fences and pens for a couple years, and you just do the best you can. Odds are it won't be pretty, but if it holds and keeps the bulls (or bison) from escaping, you've done good. Just hang in there and do whatever works.

On most of my agricultural repair work
6010 is my go to rod. I use the whip & pause
Technique.
Hint: Always use 7018 on sucker rod. The welds
with lo/hi's will not "pop" like a 6010/6011 will.

I would probably use a stainless all metal rod rather than something intended for carbon steel. When you're doing maintenance work and stuff like that, spend twice as much on the rods and get something that flows better and leaves you with a non corrosive weld. Something like this maybe.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G336HAK/

Using stainless rods does not make the weld bead resistant to corrosion, because there is base-metal dilution. It will rust.

As for welding over rust, sure it can be done, but you still need to have a good "ground". When I mean good, I mean it is much more critical than if there wasn't rust. Rust (and millscale to a certain extent) don't conduct electricity very well. You can't put the clamp on rusty metal and expect to make a good clean circuit. You have to at least get that part down to bare clean shiny steel, and the closer the better. If you put the clamp 100ft away, ain't no way the current will want to make it's way all the way down that path. Gotta go back to the basics. Get a good clean ground no more than 12-24" away from the joint, and watch your arc get better. Heck you can even use more than one ground path. I do that sometimes when I TIG.

These are what I call "graboids". Even though the metal table is grounded, I add these to help as well.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view ... n200lVIx41

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view ... mpDHeZkuNb

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view ... Q4Vso4XErq

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view ... NyBXKuL-1G

Using SS rod on carbon in a corrosive environment will actually shorten the life of the weld. Galvanic corrosion! Also using a SS rod on carbon is a recipe for cracked welds.

Ok, I'll bite.. Why do folks recommend those types of rods for maintenance work? Or am I confusing some multi-purpose rods with stainless based...

BugHunter wrote:Ok, I'll bite.. Why do folks recommend those types of rods for maintenance work? Or am I confusing some multi-purpose rods with stainless based...

i've not heard of anyone recommending stainless rods on rusty steel.
i also do not see the point, they are usually more expencive and i doubt they do any better job.

are you sure your not getting mixed with nikel rods that are used on cast iron repairs?

afaik best rod for rusty aera is celulose rods. use that strong arc to eat off the rust.
the other option may be a celulose rutile rod.

i would not get fancy with manipulations like e's or o's. you run the risk of trapping slag. leave those to hardwire mig.

tweake wrote:

BugHunter wrote:Ok, I'll bite.. Why do folks recommend those types of rods for maintenance work? Or am I confusing some multi-purpose rods with stainless based...

i've not heard of anyone recommending stainless rods on rusty steel.
i also do not see the point, they are usually more expencive and i doubt they do any better job.

Not only that, there is likely a varied definition of "maintenance" that varies from person-to-person. There are rods that are called "maintenance"; that are like-a-stainless, such as ER312 which is a SS rod, Super Missile Weld, and perhaps some others. But the manufacturer's definition of "maintenance" if you read the literature, is usually to weld: dissimilar steels, hard-to-weld steels like tool steels, high chrome/moly/manganese/etc/etc, unknown steels-to-unknown steels.

Where as for the lay-folk, we tend to think of "maintenance" as fixing things around the house/garage/shop/ranch/barn/tractor/etc which for us means it likely has rust/scale/crud/oil/grease/etc. Then we mistakenly mix the two up and assume our definition is what the manufacturer definition is because of the word association. That's my take on it of course.

tweake wrote:

BugHunter wrote:Ok, I'll bite.. Why do folks recommend those types of rods for maintenance work? Or am I confusing some multi-purpose rods with stainless based...

i've not heard of anyone recommending stainless rods on rusty steel.
i also do not see the point, they are usually more expencive and i doubt they do any better job.

are you sure your not getting mixed with nikel rods that are used on cast iron repairs?

afaik best rod for rusty aera is celulose rods. use that strong arc to eat off the rust.
the other option may be a celulose rutile rod.

i would not get fancy with manipulations like e's or o's. you run the risk of trapping slag. leave those to hardwire mig.

Actually I'm pretty certain I am getting mixed up with exactly those. I have a bunch of these at work and when a project is something like the op is working on that I know would be really difficult, I grab one of these. I will admit they are an expensive Rod, but they sure seem to work on anyting.
https://weldit.com/products/brutus-a/

Sandvik made a similar Rod which I also have, though I don't know if they're available anymore. It seems to me any of the light green rods anybody makes are kind of along the same lines, although most are not high-tensile like the Brutus a. And I probably shouldn't have said non-corrosive, how about less corrosive. Put them outside in the rain for a week and they still won't be rusty. Where other stuff would be solid rust in 24 hours.

Oscar wrote:
Not only that, there is likely a varied definition of "maintenance" that varies from person-to-person. There are rods that are called "maintenance"; that are like-a-stainless, such as ER312 which is a SS rod, Super Missile Weld, and perhaps some others. But the manufacturer's definition of "maintenance" if you read the literature, is usually to weld: dissimilar steels, hard-to-weld steels like tool steels, high chrome/moly/manganese/etc/etc, unknown steels-to-unknown steels.

Where as for the lay-folk, we tend to think of "maintenance" as fixing things around the house/garage/shop/ranch/barn/tractor/etc which for us means it likely has rust/scale/crud/oil/grease/etc. Then we mistakenly mix the two up and assume our definition is what the manufacturer definition is because of the word association. That's my take on it of course.

thats a good point. i never even thought about that.
doing repair work you often don't know what steel it is.
even for me, i tend to use 316 as i don't know if its 304 or 316. quite common to get 316 fittings welded to 304 pipe.
i have some 309 on hand for any odd ball stuff.

I post this up every once and a while.

https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/~/m ... ection.pdf

For old rusty pipe, equipment repairs, etc. I usually try to brush what I can with a bead brush. Then run a stringer bead of 6010, that burns through the rust/paint/crap/crud & floats the trash to slag, brush it again & either run a 2nd bead of 6010 for non critical welds, or cap it with 7018 for welds that need more strength. I may touch up the stringer pass with a grinder if there are any high spots. For higher carbon steel i.e oilfield sucker rod, 6010 pass, then grind most of it out to a clean profile & good joint config, then brush & cap with 7018. Always had good success with this method. The higher carbon sucker rod needs some preheat & the 6010 bead does that if you come back with cap pretty quick. (6010 x 1/8, 7018 x 3/32 works on about the same amperage).

I buy Lincoln 5P+, & Lincoln Excaliber 7018. I like those rods the best.

I leave the stainless rods in the box until I am welding stainless to stainless, or stainless to mild steel.

cwby wrote:I buy Lincoln 5P+, & Lincoln Excaliber 7018. I like those rods the best.

Agreed. Easiest, smoothest running rods I've used as well.