[chadwarden]

I am still having trouble with the root pass with the 6013 and would like to see how it is done. The gap we're using in class is 1mm and don't ask why we're using 6013s instead of 6010s. I asked my teacher why we aren't using 6010s and he said he's never heard of them... Anyways, I would really like to see Jody do some open root passes with stick welding in all positions with 6010s and 7018s.

[Otto Nobedder]

Chad, what country are you in? Australia and South Africa often comment about lack of 6010, and I've heard the same from a few European nations.

However, if he's never even HEARD of 6010, I have to wonder what qualifies him to teach welding, since 6010/7018 are the rods of choice for most certificated pipework for major clients around the globe. Many gas & oil pipelines are 6010 all the way, or 6010/8010. Some high surge-pressure applications are 8010 root, 11018 out.

6013 won't give you much preparation to use any of these rods, as the behavior is quite different.

If this is a "basics of welding" adult education course, or an "intro to welding", then fine! If you want to do it for a living, without the wifey needed a job, too, though....

BTW, the reason I haven't offered advice on a 6013 root is that I've never done an open root with it... The only things I've ever used it for was assembling truss frames for boat docks 25 years ago, and repairs on dirty metal. I'm not knocking it... a properly done 6013 root should be just as strong as a 6010 root, and 6013 all the way out as strong as 6010 all the way.

Steve S

[chadwarden]

Well, the reason why he may have never heard of them is because he was boilermaker/welder at workshops. He never worked in shipyards, plants, etc. He seems competent enough to teach this general fabrication course and he has over 20 years of experience. But yeah, it does kind of worry me that he's never heard of 6010s.

Yes, I'm an American student in Australia and I think you're absolutely right about Australia having a shortage of 6010s. I called up two welding suppliers and they were both out of 6010s. I don't think a lot of pipe work in Australia is done with stick exclusively. It's TIG from root to fill and then capped with 7018s. This general fabrication course is definitely not for a hobby... I aspire to be a damn good pipe welder in Australia and unfortunately this course was the only one available for international students. I want to live here because the pay is much better and I like this country a lot more than the United States.

Anyways, this root pass with stick is kicking my ass and it sure is frustrating. I'd really appreciate it if Jody made some videos of open root with stick. Btw, can 7018s be used for open root or is this a no no in industry? And thanks for the reply.

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,

Im an Aussie, and i agree with Otto. Never used a 6010 or 6011 outside of trade school. I have lots of 6012/13s at home. At work, where they historically did a lot of stick welding, all hydrogen controlled. 7018, 7016 and special ones like 11018-b and stuff like that. Not a 6010 in sight.

Go figure eh??

Mick

[Otto Nobedder]

I've done open-root with 7018, sometimes with huge gaps, on 3/8" plate 2g & 3g, but I've never done it on pipe. I'm sure it's possible, but I never encountered a WPS that called for it.

BTW, on that plate, the backside of the root was not pretty. It wasn't terrible when the gap was no more than a rod-width, but still not as consistent as 6010. I think the heavy silicate slag makes 7018 roots less predictable. Someone who does it a lot would likely do better than I did, as my roots didn't have to do more than fully penetrate, since I was building walls for a coal bunker.

Steve S

[BDoubleU]

I have mostly seen open root STICK done with 6010 or 6011. Probably, because they are 'fast freeze' rods with good digging action ... or the best of both worlds as they can fill a gap and dig through a tight root. I had always welded 7018 open root using a chill ring or backer bar - but more recently have seen some open root, even using AC.

A 6013 root sounds interesting - maybe start a threat under stick & let us know your parameters and results. Just a thought ... but pics are good if you've got em.

If you're searching for a "6010" type rod outside of North America - try asking for "cellulose" electrodes ... it might work. I've worked with folks that welded with it (6010) every day & hadn't heard of it either ... they called it 5P rod

[chadwarden]

5P rods? Hmmm... I better have a talk with my teacher again. Yeah, I don't have a camera so I am unable to upload pictures. I'll "master" open root stick eventually...

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,

They are refered to as Cellulose electrodes over here, but he should still have heard of them. (WIA rods are referred to as there product name as well, 12xp for 6012 ans 16tc for 7016 hydro controlled)

Mick

[lazerbeam]

If Jody does a root pass with stick it will probably not be with 6013. You will never run into a WPS that calls for it in a open root because it is not allowed for any code level work that I have ever heard or read about. 6010 or 5p or 5p+ or cellulose rod is called for in all of the open root codes that I have seen for stick. XX10 for root and XX10 the rest of the way or XX10 root and XX18 the rest of the way is what I have always run into for pipe. 7018 requires some type of backing for the root pass, either ceramic or steel backing in most cases.

6013 does not have a forceful arc and should be limited to thin sections or general (non-critical) repair work. As Otto stated XX10 and XX18 are the money rods.

Kevin