Welding Tips and Tricks

Gday All,

have been feverishly consuming the welding videos while awaiting delivery of my first welding unit, and a string of field projects for it. I've splurged for Lincoln Power MIG 210 trying to buy enough machine to cover all my basic work requirements. The specs by the way limit you to 175 amps in stick mode, but you have 220a available in MIG. This said, I'm starting to have doubts if my seller is going to deliver, so I might be ordering elsewhere....with option of choosing a different machine.

I'll get right to it:
Following mucho practice and some instruction, my first projects will be repairs and a custom upgrade on my steel dumpsters. 1/8" patches via mig....and will use this for some stick practice also to get a feel for the machine. But the upgrade...that will involve 1/4" tube and 3/8" plate, and must be strong!! ***So I want to know if I'm buying enough machine to do this - is the short version of the question.*** The extended version and details of this question to follow.

The chart of settings I've also attached from the manual only goes up to 3/8" plate - does not suggest mig for this, leaving their only recommended setting 1/8 stick "E6011 / 56013 (DC+)" 160-175 amps - again 175a being the max the unit does in stick mode.Please see the attached photo

These are 10-12 yard dumpsters - not monster 20 or 30s - BUT, this upgrade is so my larger 33,000gvw truck can pick them up when they are too heavy with e.g. fine rubble and the smaller Isuzu can not lift. So I want it to be plenty strong.

So the questions please:
1) Do I have enough power in this machine to weld the 3/8" plate to the 1/4" tubes? Is 2 passes a sound plan for this - and mig or stick? I really do like the ease of use of this machine with its interface, and that it's not an import with questionable specs/customer service as with some, but perhaps not all of the import companies.
2) I'm concerned about not being able to use 7018 (manual says max 5/16" with that electrode) for that 3/8" to 1/4" weld, by the specs - but wouldn't 7018 ideally be a better choice than 6011 for strength? Or should I try say first pass with 6011, then two more passes with 7018?
3) Should I be considering an additional and/or more powerful machine? Thoughts include:
a) One machine: Everlast Power Mts 250S http://www.everlastgenerators.com/produ ... ermts-250s - not as easy to set, and an import, though perhaps one of the better ones. Max 200a stick 250 mig. More money than the Lincoln by about $400. The Tweco FABRICATOR 211i attractively priced about $950 and goes up to 200a stick, 210a mig.
b) One more expensive machine: Tweco 250i http://store.cyberweld.com/tharcfa25miw.html More impressive specs with 230a stick output. Again less enthused about the interface/import. And at about $600 more....hell I think I've talked myself out of that one given option C.
c) Two machines: Keep with the Lincoln, but order a more powerful stick only machine such as a 300amp Everlast or other 250a import - only to pull out for 3/8"-1/2" type work.

Would a 200a DC stick only unit do the trick for 3/8-1/2"? It's 25 amps more than what I'd already have in Stick mode with the Lincoln (not sure how much real world difference that makes especially comparing Lincoln spec to an import spec)....though for $350 I really like the sound of the portable 120/240 Everlast stick only welder 200a with dedicated 6010 port. The 300a version is just under $600.

I don't want to go the buzz box or AC route...want to stick to DC only so that eliminated the Lincoln or the Hobart Stickmate.

Thanks in advance - I know there's allot of detail in there!

D

As a beginner I would recommend using 3/32 7018 at 70 to 95 amps depending on the thicknesses you have mentioned. I have also recently bought the Lincoln 210 mp. Plan on making multiple passes. I've welded on pipe with a wall thickness around 1-1/2 inch this way it got exrayed and I never had any issues. Just put in lots of practice time! Plan on going through 50 - 100 lbs of rod and you won't regret the practice. There are some other rods that will also do what you want this is just what I like.

Thanks Josh.

Have to admit as a newbee I'm now a bit confused. For 7018 the Lincoln spec only shows up to 3/16" metal with 3/32 rod, or 5/16" metal with 1/8 rod.

D

D,

Those specs in the chart are based on a single pass. For 3/16 material, you should not have a leg of the weld bigger than 3/16. This does not stop you from stacking welds to weld heavier material. It's not uncommon to take a 1" plate test, in either butt or fillet configuration with a 1/8" rod, for example. It's up to the user to put down the right amount of metal with each pass to achieve the best strength.

Steve S

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... f=3&t=8935
Woodbutcher recently posted this with some pics you can see how he is laying in beads.

So should I not be concerned about welding the 3/8" -> 1/4" only having 175amps available in stick mode?

What about the first pass 6011, then 2 passes 7018 train of thought?

And on that note, is Mig a consideration for the buildup passes and the straight 1/4 -> 1/4 tube welds? Perhaps something like flux cored gas (75/25) shielded Lincoln Outer Shield/ESAB Dual Shield?

Thanks again.

D

I have a thermal arc 186 I use for stick and tig. I bought the 210 mp primarily for mig. From what I've done with it so far I would say if your running on 220volt then you could mig it with out issues as well. There are lots of options for stick as far as what rods to use and weather or not to use multiple kinds of rod or just one. You said dumpsters? Like trash dumpsters or something else. Post some picks because where you weld and how much stress and what kind of stress it will see will determine what will give you the best results. Side note I had trouble running 6010 rods with the 210 mp but have tried several other kinds with out problems.

Thermal Arc 186 puts out 170a in stick mode I see.

Yes, little work on a few steel dumpsters is first project. I posted a photo as attachment on post #1.

D

The amount of stick welding done above 150 amps is very little overall. If you have to weld thicker metal, then you just run multiple passes. For example, if I am going to weld a 3/8" lap joint (fillet weld) then I am going multi-pass this joint and I plan that from the beginning. Usually 3 passes with a 1/8" electrode.

Kevin

OK....So I ordered 6pounds of 1/8 Excalibur 7018 in one pound sealed tubes. And some cheaper 7018 and 7014 for practice.

Any thoughts between 6011/7018 on which will give me better penetration/strength on the first pass given the limitations of the LE 210 and the chart I attached in first post? At the hot end of the chart each would be run as high as 170a maxing out the machine.

The machine does put out as much as 200a in mig mode....and I've order some .035 Innershield 211 with the thought of using that for the 1/4" -> 1/4" welds as work will be done outside. BUT....I'm still curios if I'd get stronger welds using gas shielded, flux core when I can be sure of being protected from any wind.

D

Poland308 wrote:Side note I had trouble running 6010 rods with the 210 mp but have tried several other kinds with out problems.

Does anyone know why the Power MIG 210 MP is not rated for 6010 because I've been trying to figure why. I would think if it is DC it should run it ok.

From my rather extensive reading (yet 0 hands on time as shipment has not yet arrived) the word is that some inverter welders don't handle 6010 well. Some dedicated stick welders have pre-programmed settings especially for 6010, while others like the Everlast inverter stick welders have dedicated ports marked 6010 to connect your leads to when running that rod....and claim good performance thereafter.

The LE Power Mig 210 is primarily a mig rig (hence the name), that is stick/tig capable at lower amperage output.

This would seem to be the trade off, given the price point and multi process features......

Will be curios to hear how the new ESAB Rebel performs as people get to start testing more thoroughly in coming months. Boy do I hope they make a more powerful ie 250amp unit...or that Lincoln upgrades/overhauls the Power Mig 250 with interface/features like the 210. Looks like ESAB went head to head with the LE 210MP in their new introduction.

D

My first personal inverter was my thermal arc 186 and it runs 6010 just fine that's why I bought the Lincoln 210 mp primarily to use just for mig. But with the option to run on 115 volt if I need to for some stick or dc tig.

I'm realizing that this leaves a hole in my plans for having capability of running a deep penetrating rod for first pass on jobs where strength is important. (With the thought of following passes being 7018)

The Lincoln apparently can't run 6010....and the word seems to be that 6011 is far weaker on DC than AC. Any suggestions on what to do?
Here's what Chucke2009 found in his comparison. Even if not exactly scientific, its a landslide between AC/DC on 6011. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZVkJdUhIP8


So....thoughts?? Really not keen to be buying a second machine just for stick right from the beginning. Sure I could by a Lincoln buzz box AC only for cheap and run 6011AC...but for that I'd likely by an Everlast stick welder that has a dedicated 6010DC port.

D

You have to base your decision of what machine to buy first on what process you are going to focous on and use the most. That's why I picked the TA186 for my first inverter I wanted the tig AC and the pulse features. Mig was an after thought for some other projects. From what I've seen posted about the everlast machines that might be a great option for you.
Don't fret about if you can weld hot enough any machine that is rated around 200 amps or more Is capable of more than most people will use in a practice or first setup. I have a miller 150 STL on my work truck that has had lots of stick and tig time on it because I can run almost anything I need to in an 1/8 rod size or smaller.

The heaviest weld I see ahead at the moment is 3/8" plate to 1/4" wall rectangle tube in a lap joint fashion.

But here's the ticket - it's the lifting point on a steel dumpster that will be picked up by a hook truck taking all the weight.

Thus I was thinking:

• first pass 6011,
• following passes either 7018 or use the mig gun with Lincholn Inner Shield


Thoughts?

D

I would multi pass with 7018 and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

My knowledge is textbook not practical....but everything I've read says 6010/6011 has deep penetration when done properly...whereas 7018 more shall/medium penetration......

getherdone wrote:The heaviest weld I see ahead at the moment is 3/8" plate to 1/4" wall rectangle tube in a lap joint fashion.

But here's the ticket - it's the lifting point on a steel dumpster that will be picked up by a hook truck taking all the weight.

Thus I was thinking:

• first pass 6011,
• following passes either 7018 or use the mig gun with Lincholn Inner Shield


Thoughts?

D

Why? 7018 has a higher tensile strength. Penetration? As long as your weld pass has securely bit into the base metal you're fine. Especially if it's a multipass weld. Bevel the components and keep pounding! We never used any 6011 on the submarines and you can't get much more stress on a weld than being under a few hundred feet of water!

Now for a word of warning from an old man. When welding dumpsters. When you think you have enough weld there, keep welding. I personally witnessed a lifting hook on a 42 yard compactor dumpster tear away from the lifting plate and total the truck. The cable came over the top, crushed the roof, blew out the glass. took out the hood, radiator and supercharger
when the "eye" went through the radiator. The motor was running at the governor and the supercharger blew apart and
launched shrapnel down the intake which took out a 1271 V12 Detroit diesel. I was the guy that got to lay in the snow and
replace that hook and lift plate so the box could be loaded and emptied. It seems that someone convinced a service man to crank up the pressure on the hydraulic packer from 2500 psi to almost 6000 psi! The damn thing is only outfitted with 3000 psi hose! The poor driver never got over 30 mph all the way to the landfill. Damn thing had almost 100K pounds of wet produce packed into it! The packer was set back to correct specs and they had me tack the doors shut!

Be careful out there. The life you save may be yours! Or your friends!

There is more than just penetration think about when choosing rod.

Thanks guys...appreciate the advice.

General consensus seems to be....even though my welder has more amperage available in mig.....hit it with 7018 stick?

D

Another newbee question....

was looking at the specs for the Hobart Handler 210MVP
( http://www.hobartwelders.com/pdf/spec_s ... 210MVP.pdf)

which lists in the manual to be able to handle 1/4" aluminum with the spool gun with it's max 210amp output.

Meanwhile the Lincoln Power Mig 210 with a listed output of 220amps only lists settings up to 3/16" aluminum in their manual.

Are these just rough guides...or is there really a different in performance?

D