Welding Tips and Tricks

I'm teaching myself to weld so I know nothing about the industry practices. I bought a full tank of Argon online and shipped to my house. So it was an owned tank with nothing on the neck. I took it to the welding supply store Saturday and they don't fill on weekends, but could exchange it. I paid for the exchange in the store, but the tank was outside so the clerk did not see it.

The guy who brought the replacement over was hesitant to give it to me after he saw my tank. He called it a slim neck or something and asked if the clerk had seen it. I said no and asked if something was wrong and he said no that it was fine. So I got a tank that now has the name of the welding supply shop on it. Was this a mistake to exchange it? Do I still own this tank?
Should I go back and get my tank back?


Thanks for your help,
Paul

You still own it. But you may never see that tank again. You technically own the rights to that bottle so when you exchange tanks you only pay for the refill. Some of the bigger supply chains have even stopped selling bottles so you have to lease a bottle. Which in the long run is going to be more money in their pocket. Don't get hung up on your tank you will always get one that has been inspected and certified.

nickn372 wrote:You still own it. But you may never see that tank again. You technically own the rights to that bottle so when you exchange tanks you only pay for the refill. Some of the bigger supply chains have even stopped selling bottles so you have to lease a bottle. Which in the long run is going to be more money in their pocket. Don't get hung up on your tank you will always get one that has been inspected and certified.

Correct

I just exchanged this tank yesterday so I'm not sure they've done anything with it yet. Will I be able to sell the tank to someone else? Can I exchange the tank at a different welding gas supplier?

pmcint01 wrote:I just exchanged this tank yesterday so I'm not sure they've done anything with it yet. Will I be able to sell the tank to someone else? Can I exchange the tank at a different welding gas supplier?

If the neckring around the top of the cylinder is blank, it's an owned bottle and you can do anything you want with it. I always insist on a blank neck ring bottle now at every exchange. Had a bunch of issues with bottles I owned when I moved from Colorado to NV because they had the LWS name on the neckring

pmcint01 wrote:I just exchanged this tank yesterday so I'm not sure they've done anything with it yet. Will I be able to sell the tank to someone else? Can I exchange the tank at a different welding gas supplier?

Some LWSs will not exchange a bottle with someone elses stamp on the neck ring. Airgas is notorious for that. I think it has something to do with legal custody or some shit like that. I have a supplier that will take anyones bottle and I don't have to deal with the morons at my local Airgas. If you intend to buy more bottles, check with your LWS and make sure you can get it filled there otherwise you will be SOL. I have had luck buying bottles on Craigslist. You may have to pay for a hydro test when you take it in for exchange but you will own any bottle you get in exchange for it. There is no benefit to owning a bottle, by the way.

exnailpounder wrote:

pmcint01 wrote:I just exchanged this tank yesterday so I'm not sure they've done anything with it yet. Will I be able to sell the tank to someone else? Can I exchange the tank at a different welding gas supplier?

Some LWSs will not exchange a bottle with someone elses stamp on the neck ring. Airgas is notorious for that. I think it has something to do with legal custody or some shit like that. I have a supplier that will take anyones bottle and I don't have to deal with the morons at my local Airgas. If you intend to buy more bottles, check with your LWS and make sure you can get it filled there otherwise you will be SOL. I have had luck buying bottles on Craigslist. You may have to pay for a hydro test when you take it in for exchange but you will own any bottle you get in exchange for it. There is no benefit to owning a bottle, by the way.

What do you mean there is no benefit to owning a bottle??? How about not paying $6 per bottle per month lease??? Yeah there it's a big benefit to owning your bottles unless you are the welding supply collecting the lease payments:!::!::!:

I bought the tank I have from a LWS and I will break even on the cost of the tank at about 18 months. Compared to renting. I've also traded tanks for personal and for work and even though I use one place for most exchanges I often have to trade tanks in what ever town wherever I can. One distributed told me he had a deal worked out with the other LWS to trade there labeled bottles Back to each other. If they get one that has no name or is out of date they just send it in to a test company to have it certified or replaced.

Southpaw..I have a 300cu.ft that I leased for 7 years for a one time payment of $200. If I turn the bottle in anytime before the 7 years elapses I get my money back. If I made 84 monthly payments of six dollars, I would pay $504 for the same bottle and no return money. That $200 for 7 years equals a bit more than $2 a month. Thats a negligible amount and a pretty sweet deal. I don't know what a new 300 ft bottle would cost but I bet it would be expensive and around here they just do not exist for sale used. I own a couple of smaller bottles that I was allowed to write off 1 time on taxes for a chump change figure. I can write off the 2 bucks a month plus the cost of accounting which almost doubles it. When my leased bottle needs a hydro, they pay for it. When my owned bottles need hydro, I pay for it. The monthly lease is a scam and they make a killing off it so I chose the only deal that made any sense. If there is ANY benefit to ownership, it isn't worth bothering with.

Ex stop it your killing me.

I have four bottles. I own them all.
Two for oxy/acetylene.
One for MIG. -argon/CO2
One for TIG. -argon
I trade them when I need refills.

WerkSpace wrote:I have four bottles. I own them all.
Two for oxy/acetylene.
One for MIG. -argon/CO2
One for TIG. -argon
I trade them when I need refills.

I'm working the same way.
A pair of O/A bottles, a C25% mix bottle for MIG, a 100% CO2 bottle for MIG (and portable air source for pneumatic tools...), and two Argon bottles for TIG.

I think I'm into the whole set for about $500, spread out over a few years.

The local welding suppliers have never quibbled when I went to swap a bottle for a full one, either. Walk in, drop off bottle, pay and walk off with a full one.
They even take care of the bottle pressure tests. The only hydro I ever paid for was when I had the pure CO2 bottle swapped to a gas service valve instead of an obsolete fire extinguisher head.

ex framie wrote:Ex stop it your killing me.

I understand you guys get bent over pretty bad on gas cost down there. Is bottle costs bad too?

exnailpounder wrote:Southpaw..I have a 300cu.ft that I leased for 7 years for a one time payment of $200. If I turn the bottle in anytime before the 7 years elapses I get my money back. If I made 84 monthly payments of six dollars, I would pay $504 for the same bottle and no return money. That $200 for 7 years equals a bit more than $2 a month. Thats a negligible amount and a pretty sweet deal. I don't know what a new 300 ft bottle would cost but I bet it would be expensive and around here they just do not exist for sale used. I own a couple of smaller bottles that I was allowed to write off 1 time on taxes for a chump change figure. I can write off the 2 bucks a month plus the cost of accounting which almost doubles it. When my leased bottle needs a hydro, they pay for it. When my owned bottles need hydro, I pay for it. The monthly lease is a scam and they make a killing off it so I chose the only deal that made any sense. If there is ANY benefit to ownership, it isn't worth bothering with.

Maybe as a business user yes. But for the OP, a hobby welder. Buying is much better deal than leasing. Plus hobby guys don't get those reduced rates or have any tax advantage to leasing.

If I fill my personal 125cf argon it costs me about 45$ out the door for a tank trade. Walk in walk out. If I do the same thing for my work it costs the shop 9$.

Southpaw. I am a schedule c sole proprietor so I get no up front deals on anything. I accidently found the LWS I deal with now and they are awesome. They are a small regional shop that the big corps has not been able to buy out so they actually appreciate the small guys business. 300cu.ft argon swap is $63. 150cu.ft. swap is argon is 40. 150cu.ft 75/25 same price. If you bring in your own bottle for a swap, you pay a one time $50 hydro fee which I bitched about because the last bottle I bought was still current but thats the rules. I know not everyone can afford big bottles but thats where the advantage comes in the money saved on gas. I was told by my LWS that 300 footers are not for sale and if you find one used it was stolen or never returned and someone is looking for it hence they are lease only. It may be different elsewhere. Start a schedule c and you can write of a bunch of toys if you do work for other people and charge for it.

exnailpounder wrote:Southpaw. I am a schedule c sole proprietor so I get no up front deals on anything. I accidently found the LWS I deal with now and they are awesome. They are a small regional shop that the big corps has not been able to buy out so they actually appreciate the small guys business. 300cu.ft argon swap is $63. 150cu.ft. swap is argon is 40. 150cu.ft 75/25 same price. If you bring in your own bottle for a swap, you pay a one time $50 hydro fee which I bitched about because the last bottle I bought was still current but thats the rules. I know not everyone can afford big bottles but thats where the advantage comes in the money saved on gas. I was told by my LWS that 300 footers are not for sale and if you find one used it was stolen or never returned and someone is looking for it hence they are lease only. It may be different elsewhere. Start a schedule c and you can write of a bunch of toys if you do work for other people and charge for it.

The part about the 250/330CF bottles is bogus. I have one now and have owned a couple in the past. Bought them used or at auction. Never had problem swapping them out. It's just company policies. Have yet to see anyone post a law prohibiting ownership of them anywhere in the USA and it's been discussed many times. It's a company policy and nothing more. Unless you want to post the law to prove otherwise. Same deal with the hazmat fees the LWS add to sales.

Ex- nail, ex-framie ... I am starting to see a lot of ex's out here.

At least these ex's don't live in Texas... That would be too weird.

Steve S

Ex = hasbeen.
Cant do what I used to do for a living.
On another note both my ex's I've had transported to Tasmania, nothing like over a 1000 miles separation and a sea gap.

I still do carpenter work in the busy summer season but repair work is my favorite thing. My second favorite thing is being 53 years old and going out and running kids, half my age, into the ground all day. What a bunch of sissies we have in the trades these days.

Hi guy I'm new to welding and so far I have found the hardest part is finding affordable cylinders and refills so I have been using facebook market place and I was able to buy a 330cf cylinder for $180 filled from a gentlemen. It had a smooth neck and but I did find what could be a name stamped in the bottle after I bumped it. The sticker says praxair on it, does that mean I have to have praxair fill it? Which would suck because they quoted me $150 to fill it. but the other LWS qouted $50 to fill it if I own it.

Each supplier has there own rules. Most I have dealt with will trade your tank for a full one from them. They will usually also charge you a small recertification fee the first time you trade it in. Then they will charge there normal rate as long as you trade it with them.

Did I do that wrote:Hi guy I'm new to welding and so far I have found the hardest part is finding affordable cylinders and refills so I have been using facebook market place and I was able to buy a 330cf cylinder for $180 filled from a gentlemen. It had a smooth neck and but I did find what could be a name stamped in the bottle after I bumped it. The sticker says praxair on it, does that mean I have to have praxair fill it? Which would suck because they quoted me $150 to fill it. but the other LWS qouted $50 to fill it if I own it.

Completely depends on your area. Some areas it's almost like dealing with the mafia when it comes to gas distribution and cylinder ownership. Other areas, the local shops don't seem to care much at all. The best—and really only—thing you can do is take it to your LWS (hopefully a mom and pop shop, and not one of the big chains) and ask them what your options are with that bottle. Be upfront with them. Trying to deliver a bunch of BS their way on how you got the bottle, or even worse trying to remove neck rings, won't help you at all.

Thanks for the responses so I live in the Chicago land area an seems I called almost every gas supplier around here. And what I found out is that the cylinder had a new neck ring put on by a past owner of the tank sometime which is evident by the miss aligned dimples on the neck and must have painted over the name Praxair that I found stamped in the tank after the use of a little paint thinner. I talked to 3 different Praxair shops and they told me since I bought it I own it but more then likely know one else will fill it but they are happy to exchange it for $150 to $180 out the door. I called 3 other companies two major ones and 1 mom and pop shop and they won't fill it since it says praxair on the tank. But I did find an out of state mom and pop shop that would be happy to exchange it for $75 which works for me. I did find it funny no one said I couldn't own it or asked if it was stolen, they just said they don't see that size owned normally, I also asked if there are marks that show if it was a leased tank and both airgas and praxair at multiple locations said they had no way of knowing. All I have to say is it is sad mom and pop stories are disappearing and that out of state shop will now be getting a bunch of my money because they worked with me and I need a bunch of equipment. I will say the guy at airgas told me they don't worry about someone buying a leased tank as that is an issue between their lawyers a the lease holder not the buyer.