Welding Tips and Tricks

I would like to pick everyone's brain. I am bidding on a job where I would be building 3 brushed SS top tables 30"x60" with 2" lips all the way around. The SS will be either 16 or 14 ga. all formed and corners welded/finished. The inside frame can be carbon tubing or angle for some cost savings and the legs will be SS square tube. The question I have is this, is there a adhesive that I can use to bond the SS top to the carbon frame instead of welding? I want to avoid welding specifically the crossmembers to the top so I don't have any finishing to do in the middle of the table and there will be no heat marks. In a former life we had all the equipment necessary to finish it or we had the acid, which I don't have. Has anyone used anything to bond like this? Are there any other ideas that I should be entertaining? I will be doing my research but wanted to put this question out to the family as well.
-Jonathan

I regularly see s/s sheet bonded to frames and other panels such mdf, chipboard, copper, urethane insulation, s/s, steel etc. All done with contact adhesive and sticks like crazy. Peeling it off is really hard work. Applications I've see are kitchen serveries, under bench fridges, laboratory cabinets and tables etc.

There are spray on craft adhesives but they are hopeless on s/s.

Good luck!

Jonathan, I'll have to dig for the specific item, but 3M makes a two-sided tape for this purpose. It's used to attach body panels to bullet trains, and is damn near as tough as superglue in dissimilar materials.

We use it at work, though not under such strenuous circumstances, and it's a bitch to intentionally separate after 15 years.

I'll see if I can get you a spec and some info.

Steve S

I like using helicopter rotor tape when it's someone else paying the bill. It's not two sided, but you can say you used helicopter tape to hold the top on.

Thanks guys. We use 3M products to bond UHMW and rubbers to steel and it might work but wanted to see what else is out there. I like the idea of the two sided tape. My wifes car had some plastic trim coming off a few years ago and I bought some recommended tape like that and it has been holding fine.

I forgot to mention, these are QC stations that hold a Craftsman tool box and a large printer. The parts to be inspected are small so once the tables are in place they should not see much loading or movement. What I like best about this job (besides making good money on it) is the tables and a few other items will be right where everyone can see them. Never hurts to do a little promoting.
-Jonathan

If you end up using contact adhesive, be sure to follow the instruction. Right way= glued almost permanently, wrong way = falls off embarrassingly.

Jonathan,
We have Aluminum and stainless panels held on with RTV Silicone and you wouldn't believe what it takes to get them off.
I used it to hold an Aluminum base on an angle iron frame for a UPS system for the plant and it's held up well for the past 3 years.

The double face 3M tape works well also and is very hard to remove when you have to.

Len

Adhesive choice will depend not only on the base materials, but also the projected rigidity of the joint and the amount of joint 'filling' required.

Eg. a superglue (cyanoacrylate) style bonding material will be very strong, but only if the gap in the joint is very small to non-existant (otherwise it's a very lousy glue..). Also it's not very flexible.

For structural bonding the most common types used are often polyurethane, acrylic and epoxy based glues with the first generally being the most tolerant of flexing and the last usually curing to the the most rigid.

In the case of a table top, if it will see impacts and such or the frame has some movement/flex in it then a more 'pliable' and impact-resistant bonding agent like polyurethane and acrylic helps. If the structure is rigid and the impact tolerance is not required then a good epoxy could do you well.

Glue bonds work best when they can work on a bigger surface area (and tend to fail on peel-stresses), so if your frame could be outfitted with 'spreader plates' where it will contact the table top then your connection will be the most secure compared to just bonding onto posts and bars.

In any case the bonding surface area and surface prep will be crucial. For any bonding agent you use, make sure you check the manual on how to prep the surface. This may include surface cleaners, activator(s) and a paint-like surface-prep. Also follow the guides on the bond gaps and curing times before loading the joints.

Once it's fully cured and the surface prep has been done properly then most of these will create a joint that's very hard to separate. Usually you need serious mechanical work or high heat to break the bond.

Bye, Arno.

In my past job I was a design engineer for a top 3M Preferred converter, VHB was my life...lol If you go this route let me know I could give you a contact and save you some $$.


With proper prep the VHB will be as strong as a weld and take the vibration extremely well. Will these be outside or exposed to any high or low temps?

3M has a newer product that is also a little cheaper if you need a little more gap filling 5962 is about .062" thick, 5952 is around .045" thick. Toted as general purpose it bonds very well to a wide range or high and low surface energy. I used it to hold some UHMW to alum lawn furniture for a high end designer... These were thousands of dollar chairs, Oprah and Madonna were clients.

3M 5200 Marine adhesive. Bullet Proof. Just make sure to get the "fast cure".

Jonathan,

The 3M VHB that Rick_H mentioned is exactly what I was referring to in my first reply. That stuff is almost bulletproof. It will tolerate extreme cold (as in liquid air running down it and destroying the paint around it), and doesn't lose it's grip at up to around 400*F (an estimate).

Like epoxy, it takes time to reach full strength. It's adhesion is gradual, drawing itself into every pore, scratch, and divot in the material. You can peel-and-restick a mismatch in the first few seconds, but 24-48 hours later you'll damn near need an air-chisel (or hot-knife) to separate the parts.

Steve S

I really appreciate everyones help on this one! I will bid these tables using the 3M VHB tape. I turn it in next Tuesday and hope I get it (although I already know how much I need to bid and I am the only bidder ) It is amazing the solutions we can achieve off of this forum.
-Jonathan

We frequantly use this on structures that are not welded....

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/loctite-bon ... en-p120173

We use lots of VHB tape. Uline seems to to have the best price on it.

ML


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3M 5200 Marine adhesive. Bullet Proof. Just make sure to get the "fast cure".

Yup nothing sticks better. I use that stuff a lot. Sikaflex make a similar product but I forgot the number of it.