Welding Tips and Tricks

For a gig in a custom exhaust shop.

304 tube to plate lap, no purge.

My question is, what kind of impression should I have about that?

Is it to be expected that there would not be a purge in a situation like a test?

Was the fact that the metal was greasy the universe's way of telling me to bring acetone to my next test?

Or does this sound like a half ***ed shop?

Everything else about it was totally unprofessional, so either way wouldn't shock me.

This was the first test I've taken and I'm just a bit confused, about everything

Should I go ahead and start practicing on dirty metal with no purge using pure tungsten that's been dipped in an aluminum puddle on the wrong polarity with my underwear on my head to be able to anticipate the next Jacob's Ladder hospital welding shop I step into?

Alright, I'm shutting up. Any input from anyone who's ever been on either side of a test would be appreciated.

You didn't say if you passed...

You should have available to you everything anyone else in the shop has available as a "shop consumable", so ask.

It's not uncommon to NOT backpurge exhaust. This ANNOYS me in a "custom shop" that uses 304 instead of 400-series, though. The 304 is more costly and lets them "up" the margin, but the "no purge" tells me they're a half-ass outfit trying to up the margin a bit more rather than doing a respectable job.

You should expect a shop using 304 for "expensive" custom exhausts to pay attention to the details. These guys are paying attention to the profit margin. Not only would I not want to work there, I'd enjoy killing them on facebook.

A real welder wants to be a craftsman, not a half-ass paycheck collector.

Just my two cents...

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:You didn't say if you passed...

You should have available to you everything anyone else in the shop has available as a "shop consumable", so ask.

It's not uncommon to NOT backpurge exhaust. This ANNOYS me in a "custom shop" that uses 304 instead of 400-series, though. The 304 is more costly and lets them "up" the margin, but the "no purge" tells me they're a half-ass outfit trying to up the margin a bit more rather than doing a respectable job.

You should expect a shop using 304 for "expensive" custom exhausts to pay attention to the details. These guys are paying attention to the profit margin. Not only would I not want to work there, I'd enjoy killing them on facebook.

A real welder wants to be a craftsman, not a half-ass paycheck collector.

Just my two cents...

Steve S

The owner told me they had a few other guys to check out, and he'd be in touch, so my hopes aren't hung high. I don't feel great about it, I was nervous, first time and all. Had good color and consistency, though so who knows.

I just assumed, especially since the inside of an exhaust system gets exposed to a fair bit of moisture, that the sugaring would be a huge no-no, but I have no industry experience other than practicing on my own and trying to get to where i can get an entry level gig and make something happen, so it doesn't take long for my logic to turn pretzel.

I appreciate your comment about craftsmanship. I spend so much time trying to get the variables I have control over down ice cold, studying and practicing, and then find myself in a test type situation where not only is everything different that one would expect, but it seems like some of the basics are being sidestepped as well. Put me in a bit of a mood.

Thanks again Steve. It's good to know how someone with real experience would feel about some of this stuff.

You're welcome,

And, hey, a job's a job. If they call you, good. You don't have to like it for it to pay your bills and build your resume'.

The boss telling you he has a few others to "check out" tells you if he makes you an offer, it's going to be low-ball. I can tell from what you've said so far, this outfit is about numbers, not quality.

As self-taught (As was I), you have to take your opportunities where you get them, but don't stop looking. I once quit a nice shop job three days in, because I got offered 3X the money and couldn't say no. I slept in my van in 5*F the first night just to be there for it.

Steve S

No purge? im a novice at the stainless pipe etc but i was always told to purge bc of the "sugar"(thats what my instructor called it but its been 5 years since I even messed with stainless)

The reality is most would not purge exhaust done at home but as Steve said a custom shop I would expect to do it.
To show the flip side of the coin, there are shops that will set a test in front of you that is wrong to see what you will do. I have given a structural test with the blueprints wrong on a measurement just to see if the potential employee picks up on it. Maybe, just maybe, this is what they were doing? I doubt it, it does sound like a shop focused on numbers. I would also have to agree with Steve that this will not likely be a high paying job but it will indeed get you some experience. I have been known to say that one can learn something from anyone or anywhere. Maybe you can pick up on some TIG skills there.
I would have to guess with the modest reply on how you did, you probably did quite well. Let us know how it turns out.
-Jonathan

Will do Jonathan, thanks.

I thought about the reverse psychology angle, but this place is so unprofessional (and high dollar to the customer, yeeow) that I discounted the notion. Maybe that's part of it. I asked about the purge and the notion was dismissed. Dirty metal makes me wonder..

Anyway, If the games they play (or don't) are that complicated it's not a good fit anyrod.

I appreciate your response, having been on the other side of a test.

And if they do call me back, I'll learn as much as I can from 'em, start my own custom exhaust company, put them out of business, hire the owners' wife to clean my toilets, sell his kids into slavery, push his grandmother into a.. well, you get the idea.

Damn you Jonathan tricky tricky

JDIGGS82 wrote:Damn you Jonathan tricky tricky

Well over half missed the dimension being wrong and most got the weld symbols wrong. It was a miniature column with a angle cut top, offset base plate, bolt holes in clips, and clips coming off every which way. Note that it was known we were hiring structural welders and extensive knowledge of blueprint reading was a must, this was not a beginners position.
Jonathan

I had something similer when I worked at a guys mechanical shop....
He had lots of parts assembled backwards, bolts and hose clamps not tight, hose run through the exhaust manifold and other stuff like that...

He was seeing if I would notice it, and do anything about it....

Luckily I did...

I'm not bragging, but you've all heard that story...
This company is looking for an honest manager, and they interview a bunch of their employee's, asking them to "fake" an order....
They would get extra money for doing hat way...
Most of the guys say they would....
One guy says that its dishonest, and the boss threatens him saying that he'll get fired if he doesn't do it...
The guys still refuses.

Than they break down and tell him it was a test....
They wanted to find an honest guy to manage there shipping etc...


Hard to find these days....

My 2 cents...

I might try a test like that, if I ever hire an employee....

~John

There's a pipe fabrication shop in Ohio, Scott Process Systems, if I recall, that builds water-walls and other boiler assemblies for power plants. They INTENTIONALLY give a no-purge test on stainless pipe (It must be a "qualification"... ASME IX / B31. do not allow this for "certification" as I've read it), with the idea being a "perfect" ring of sugar is a better indicator of your skill than a perfect root with purge...

This shop pays really good money, yet still has such a high turnover that their ad has run continuously on roadtech.com for as long as I've followed the site, at least five years.

Steve S

I have been out to Scott Process Systems and while I really don't know them personally they do turn out very good products and they are very big. It is a awesome sight to drive past their yard and see what they are working on or shipping out.
-Jonathan

Hey, if you fellas have horror stories, I'd be interested in that too. Makes for a laugh in an otherwise monotonous sea of practice and speculation.

Guys showing up loaded wearing sandals, what have ya.

Any other do's and dont's would be good to, beyond the obvious show up properly dressed and don't mumble.

The job market these days really blows me away, you hear all this stuff, and then it seems like some of the companies that are hiring are reaping what they've been sowing for years. Hard to make sense of it.

I will think I more throughout the day, but the most common I have seen and others here I am sure, is showing up for a welding job interview and not bring a helmet and other gear. This happens more other than it should.
I was told at another shop, a guy showed up for a welding position interview dressed in a suit or tux. He even took his weld test dressed like that.
Hired a guy and he worked for three days and never showed back up. No phone call and wouldn't answer ours. Two weeks later he came for his gear, he had been in jail. Needless to say he was fired.
-Jonathan

gotcha that's one area i am working on is my print reading i can read a basic weld print but anything kinda complicated and i just frigggin get overwhelmed jonathan

I learned to read Isometric drawings "just" after the headhunter I was using for an agent told them I could read isometric drawings...

It was $28/hr, all the OT I could stand, and $85 perdiem. You bet I learned it... Fast!

Steve S

What are your specific issues with print reading? I assume you have no trouble with dimensions, so perhaps the weld symbols? If we know where you're having issues, we can point to resources.

Steve S

yes it tends to be the symbols for sure some of the dimensions threw me for a bit of a loop at first but i sat down with it and got it all figured out it was a structural print that im speaking of that got me

Why don't you start a thread on blueprint reading, I don't recall one recently. This will be there for others benefit as well.
I am sure there are quite a few of us that can help.
-Jonathan

That'd be a good thread, not just because mine could get back on track.

One of the textbooks I have from "school" has a bunch of them in the back few pages, but there's not much in the way of examples and such so that a guy could pick up a reference point and really pick it up.

Jody's said some things a time or two about us welders being tactical, hands on learners, and that's more than a little true for me.

I can try my damndest to study a chart or so forth but without other things to triangulate that info off of, I might pass a test the next day, but I won't know what it means when I'm nervous under test circumstances, or any other circumstances for that matter.

There've been A LOT of ads for work out here that I've not responded to because they throw that build off of AWS symbols language in there. I can visualize an intercooler in my head, make some notes at 4 am, and cut out most of the peices to build that puzzle by 10 the next day, but if I knew those symbols I might just be able to lie my way into a real job.

edit spelling

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... =19&t=5291

Superiorwelding wrote:Why don't you start a thread on blueprint reading, I don't recall one recently. This will be there for others benefit as well.
I am sure there are quite a few of us that can help.
-Jonathan

WerkSpace wrote:http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... =19&t=5291

Superiorwelding wrote:Why don't you start a thread on blueprint reading, I don't recall one recently. This will be there for others benefit as well.
I am sure there are quite a few of us that can help.
-Jonathan

Thanks WerkSpace! That is what I get for not paying close enough attention to what is on here already.
-Jonathan

Well, Newschoppafowah,

We didn't so much "hijack" the thread, as keep the converstion going, waiting for you to tell us what became of the cheesy muffler-shop test/situation...

Yeah, that's how it happened...

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:Well, Newschoppafowah,

We didn't so much "hijack" the thread, as keep the converstion going, waiting for you to tell us what became of the cheesy muffler-shop test/situation...

Yeah, that's how it happened...

Steve S

I agree, it was not a hijack, rather a short detour.
-Jonathan