Welding Tips and Tricks

I was wondering what the correct method would be to fix a forklift fork that broke in half. I know they are made to flex a little bit but how do you weld them up and get it to keep its ability to tolerate some flex. Pre-heat, post-heat, 7018, 6010, throw it away and get a new one....?

Hey,

I think by law in Aus they must be replaced with new,

Not a thing I would like to play around with . Not even really sure if its possible .

Mick

Get a new pair.

In Canada we must have an annual safety inspection on forklift equipment. Any bent forks or excessive wear will not meet the safety inspection. I have not had the experience but blowing a hole in the end of a fork to put a bolt or trailer hitch ball in can disqualify a safety. Welds or evidence of heating would probably garner the same rejection. I would be curious about whether there are safety's in other areas. bap

Oh, yeah.

Replace!

If it's your own private forklift, on your own property, do whatever you want.

If it's in a shop, with others exposed to the risk, replace it, and preferably both... something caused one to break, and they're usually exposed to the same load, so I'd no longer trust the other.

Most countries have certifying bodies for the safety of industrial equipment, and none that I know of will approve of a "home-made" repair on something like this, without such extensive testing that a replacement would be cheaper.

Steve S

Nickn372.

Liability is a big issue here. It would make sense to contact the manufacturer for any repair procedure ... if there is one.

As an example, see paragraph 6.2.8.2 on page 12 of the linked document.
http://gillisons.com/pdfs/forklift_manual.pdf

Curiosity ... how did it break and at what location of the fork? What is the manufacturer/model of the forklift?

Tanks.
Alexa

John Deere forklift. Last 18" broke off of a 4 or 5 foot fork. Not sure of the model but its a big articulated machine at an Amish sawmill. I fixed it for them once. Used 7018 with extensive post heating to get it to cool evenly across the fork. It was kinda old and had been built up with ( not sure what grade or alloy) hard facing. Thought I had it but it broke again. They took it to another guy who fixed their forks before on a different machine. They said he knows how to fix that kind of thing and I said OK cuz if what I did wasn't gonna hold I had no clue where to go from there. Oh well you live you learn. Believe it or not the Amish skate around a lot of those safety regulations in my area. I did suggest replacement to start with but they wanted it fixed so I gave it my best shot. Maybe I should carry around a blanket waiver of liability. Seems I run into that type of repair stuff a lot and the last thing I need is sued.

BTW Alexa upon my inspection when I showed up at the sawmill I did notice that the cracks were starting in the hard facing and progressing into the base fork in more places than what I just fixed. I also pointed this out to the owner that it appeared the hard facing is the root issue not a weak fork. Ever seen that one before?

Yeah...

NEVER do coded work for the Amish. They have an "It'll do" attitude.

Part of the Amish belief system is a complete exclusion of government interference... Including safety rules...

Is coded your middle name?

nickn372 wrote:Is coded your middle name?

I suppose you'd begin to think so...

What I usually work on carries rocket fuel down the same highway my grandchildren ride the bus to school on, so I've become aware of the codes...

Steve S

I guess I'm just not appreciating the shot you took at my friends, relatives and customers. What you do needs a standard as well as pipe and pressure vessels among other things. If I would turn down everything that came my way that would or should fall under "code" I wouldn't be able to buy groceries.

If it were up to engineers, politicians and unions we wouldnt be able to crap in our own toilets without a license, proper insurance and an annual piss test. I would rather not have to carry an 800 page book around in my truck to see if I can fix my Amish customers equipment.

This guy is not mad at me. I told him I'd make it up to him the next time I fix something for them. He appreciated that and said he call me again when the need something fixed or rebuilt. And I suggested he replace the forks because they were cracking otherwise. He needed his only loader working again and I did my best to help him out. Hard telling if the other guys work will be any better.

I don't feel there is any need to criticize the Amish here. I wanted advice on if it should be fixed or replaced not an assumption based on somebody's religious group. If there was a quality way to do it that I did not know of I wanted to learn it.

I stretch golf carts as well for another customer. Should that be coded work because it carries people? And everybody wonders why job are being shipped to china by the thousands. I'm sure if there was a way to give them all the welding work in this country they'd do it cuz they wouldn't need to follow all the bureucratic BS for some reason or another.

Don't believe all the reality TV crap about the Amish. It is all fabricated or embellished beyond reason. Our area has one of the highest success rates for small business in the world simply because the Amish choose to help one another and forgive mistakes rather than sue the pants off of someone or find every means necessary to screw somebody to save $10.

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now

Hey,

If hardsurfacing was the root cause, which is possible because of the low ductility of the filler, then id be inclined to make a slip on sleave of hardened material, that offers wear resistance with out compromising structural strength. Can be chucked away when too damaged leaving the fork relatively undamaged. BTW Id say that welding on a forktine is wrong regardless of colour creed or religious status.

Mick

Nickn372.

I know next to nothing about the Amish but I am curious if they do any welding.

Just read in Wikipedia that powerline electricity is avoided, but diesel or gasoline burner would come in handy shared by the various families. Or an oxyactylene set up. Okay, you and others supply that service, but a youngster or two to pick up some of those skills would come in handy for them.

Another semi related question. Do they carry any type of insurance policies?

Tanks for the info.
Alexa

That all depends on what "church" they are members of. That's where it gets real funky. Some will avoid almost all contact with the English population except for groceries and things of that nature and some are driving cars and have home computers. I would have to say close to 75% of the people in our area are Amish were Amish or have Amish ancestor. Me included. There are degrees of the Amish that are man made and not of the Bible as they claim it to be. That's why some leave the Amish. Otherwise they all carry the necessary insurances, follow OSHA policy to the best of their knowledge, and pay taxes where theyneed to . They are exempt from social security but they also never collect it either. They also will not collect welfare if they are low income because they believe in making sure everybody is provided for. If somebody has lots of medical bills they pull together and take collections at church or have benefit dinner or things like that. They are people like you and me. I know some very intelligent amish as well as English and I know some stupid jerk Amish as well as English. There are Amish electricians Amish welders Amish with cell phones and I could go on and on. The Amish are no less responsible than everybody else just because we don't have government agencies breathing down our necks with a huge book of unnavigable code garb. There are even Amish pipe welders in our area and they are certified by the gas companies and do the PUCO drug testing program. OK so I shouldn't have touched it. The one that didn't break will soon anyway because of the cracking I described. They needed to keep going to feed their families just like me and were willing to take the risk. I warned them first. Prolly should in that case like I said before carry a waiver of liability for people to sign in a situation like that. It isn't that I don't know there are things to walk away from it is that I am asked to complete the job despite the risks that I may tell them about. I have turned work away. I'm no complete idiot. I know my limitations. But when I can help out I want to and I felt despite the risk and under the approval of the owner I would see if we can get it to work. Anybody else wanna beat me up for doing it go ahead but leave out the fact that it was for Amish and all they do is skate the rules and do sub par work.

In my area, we have Hutterite colonies. They drive new vehicles each year and trade in the very large tractors each year. They work very hard and spend a lot of money educating their young. They have recently set up their own CNC facility to support the oil field workers. I'm constantly seeing them at trade shows and they are investing only in the best equipment and education. I've spent lots of time talking to them and their reasoning is quite sound. They buy new, because nothing ever breaks down. One young man told me that on his colony, they have two tractors with only two operators and they seed 2500 acres in seven days. I constantly hear about other farmers having to make repairs when they need the equipment the most, but the Hutterite colony cannot recall ever having to make any repairs. The equipment works properly as it should and at the end of the season, it's traded in for new equipment. I'm not sure how they are affording all of this new equipment, but they have worked it into their business model, so that nothing fails.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish

WerkSpace & Nickn372.
Tanks for the input.
Alexa

I've never seen a material spec for forklift tines - but of those I've seen snapped they have a grain structure very similar to EN24 axle shafts & appear through hardened so no attempt to repair them should be made as the joint will never be the same material ( unless Tig welded with parent material ) & most of us will not have access to heat treatment facilitys that could acommodate that size - plus from safety & insurance aspect you would be liable for it in the future.
As dumb as this sounds it would likely have been OK to dress the end of the broken fork & shorten the other one to match ! not ideal - but at least in the UK it would be legal - I once cut off about 6" from a set the had holes blown in for fixing chains to - the safety people had seen it & allowed me to cut off the ends plus an allowance for how far they estimated heat damage occured from oxy cut holes so long as the cut was done with abrasive disc cooled with water - I then made a channel frame that slid on the forks with an tested hook on for the chains - they inspected it after & were happy.
Now why bring religion into welding - farmers are renowned for this sort of thing the world over ! sometimes you play along with them as the work is handy - but sometimes you have to tell them no !

Good or bad there is an old fart in our area that is well known for doing something like this which is where the sawmill went with the fork then. He explained to me how he did it and why mine didn't hold. He used 11018 1/8" veed it so there was an equal bevel to top and bottom welded open root. He alternated sides using an air hammer to peen the living good grief out of it after every bead. When completely welded out he wrapped it in a thermal blanket to slow the cooling then when cool he ground it flush. He has a pretty high success rate at this. He even replaces the tips on forks for guys using what he calls T1 steel. Prolly won't go out and start a new service on this but it was good to find out where I made my mistakes in attempting to fix it.

Nickn372.

Independent of your situation, I found this interesting exchange of welding of forks.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=278897

Alexa

Not real sure where I was "digging" at the Amish...

I don't watch that crap on TV. "Reality TV" is an oxymoron.

I spoke simple truths regarding the Amish approach to things the government likes to regulate.

I spoke from experience. Half of my family has been in central PA, Lebanon and Lancaster area, since before the Revolution.

"Never do coded work for the Amish" meant simply, they're not going to pay for an inspection on top of the work, if the work will do the job.

It was not my intention to offend or belittle anyone. I suppose I could have been more tactful, but I was not expecting an "Amish Uprising" on an internet forum...

Steve S

Nickn372.

The question of Amish welding only came to my mind after reading your initial post.
But looking around in the cloud ... the following link is dedicated to it and has various points of view. Comment #10 and #15 reminded me of your posts.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=56301

Alexa

I guess I was jumpy about it cuz of all the BS that's out there. The Amish community knows that it is going on and they hate it but will not say much because of their nature. My apologies for blowing it up. Its been a weird stressful week.