Welding Tips and Tricks

I haven't wired the garage for 240 yet so for the past few years I've been welding using the 120 option.

It was never uncommon to trip the breaker from time-to-time, but I've always just reset the breaker and gone back to work.

Last week I tripped the breaker, reset it, turned the machine on and after ~5 seconds into the boot process the breaker tripped again. This repeated several times. I tried using different outlets, checking cord connections, removing everything from the machine except the power cord, plugging in without using an extension cord, etc....

At this point I can only guess that there's a circuit board swap in my future, but figured I'd check here first to see if anyone else has encountered a similar problem and found a solution.

Thanks

Have you tried replacing that breaker or a circuit with a different breaker?

homeboy wrote:Have you tried replacing that breaker or a circuit with a different breaker?

Not the most likely scenario but they sure can get cranky with age . Also unlikely but what about any other appliance causing it. Air compressor kicking on ect......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

homeboy wrote:Have you tried replacing that breaker or a circuit with a different breaker?

Tried different circuit, same results.

drizler1 wrote:... Also unlikely but what about any other appliance causing it. Air compressor kicking on ect......

I don't think that's it. I've tried different things and gotten the same results a dozen or more times so I think the odds of me all a sudden clashing with another appliance that many times would have to be close to zero.

I don't know what the going rate is for a circuit board swap, but if the machine is no longer under warranty I just might try fixing it myself

IndyChops wrote:

homeboy wrote:Have you tried replacing that breaker or a circuit with a different breaker?

Tried different circuit, same results.

drizler1 wrote:... Also unlikely but what about any other appliance causing it. Air compressor kicking on ect......

I don't think that's it. I've tried different things and gotten the same results a dozen or more times so I think the odds of me all a sudden clashing with another appliance that many times would have to be close to zero.

I don't know what the going rate is for a circuit board swap, but if the machine is no longer under warranty I just might try fixing it myself

IndyChops wrote:

homeboy wrote:Have you tried replacing that breaker or a circuit with a different breaker?

Tried different circuit, same results.

drizler1 wrote:... Also unlikely but what about any other appliance causing it. Air compressor kicking on ect......

I don't think that's it. I've tried different things and gotten the same results a dozen or more times so I think the odds of me all a sudden clashing with another appliance that many times would have to be close to zero.

I don't know what the going rate is for a circuit board swap, but if the machine is no longer under warranty I just might try fixing it myself

I meant like both coming on at the same time[emoji3525]. Yea it’s likely not that easy. It’s probably a $4 Chinese diode. But hey it’s off warranty so what do you have to lose. You might get lucky and see a small burn spot. Even the smell test might zero you in on something too.
You didn’t leave it plugged in did you[HIGH VOLTAGE SIGN]️[emoji939][HIGH VOLTAGE SIGN]️. Yea been there done that , just [emoji1750]ONCE with my HH135.

Totally possible, recently got my Miller Maxstar ( in the shop 3 times) Back with a new circuit board. Brand don’t matter, there all susceptible to the average of production failure. What matters is if the manufacturer stands up for there equipment. Failures happen no way around it. Even common problems aren’t recall worthy unless the failure rate is above 15%.

So, I went to Lincoln and searched for parts. That board, if I'm not mistaken, costs about $700. Which is 70% of what I paid for the machine. This would mean that I'd have to hope for a component level repair that would almost certainly be a very small fraction of that amount. However, during my google searches I came across a posting where someone stated that component level repairs on his Lincoln (forget the model) were impossible due to the type of coating they used on the circuit board; anyone ever hear of this?

So if I'm reading correctly, it's tripping the presumably 20 amp breaker simply while booting up before ever striking an arc? Have you tried another breaker entirely? Breakers do degrade especially when tripped several times, It's not uncommon for a frequently tripped breaker to start tripping well below where it should after a while.

However if it does it on another 20 amp circuit then I would suspect it is indeed an issue with the electronics within the machine.

IndyChops wrote:So, I went to Lincoln and searched for parts. That board, if I'm not mistaken, costs about $700. Which is 70% of what I paid for the machine. This would mean that I'd have to hope for a component level repair that would almost certainly be a very small fraction of that amount. However, during my google searches I came across a posting where someone stated that component level repairs on his Lincoln (forget the model) were impossible due to the type of coating they used on the circuit board; anyone ever hear of this?

That's sort of the primary problem with all of the inverter machines that you can't avoid. The board makes up the vast majority of the cost of the machine, and the manufacturers aren't even doing component level repairs (at least not that I've heard of). Under warranty they just replace boards, and out of warranty just sell you a new board. There are a few companies that do component level repair of welder boards, but it's surprisingly expensive, and not entirely foolproof.

If you do a google search on the board part number it will usually turn up any of the shops that are repairing welder boards since most have a list of the part numbers they service. A lot of them will have either an estimated typical repair, or a fixed price to repair a board (if it can be repaired).

I haven't heard of the coating issue, but rather than try to solve that question I'd just see if any of the shops have that board listed...if they do it means they must have a way to work on it.

sbaker56 wrote:So if I'm reading correctly, it's tripping the presumably 20 amp breaker simply while booting up before ever striking an arc? Have you tried another breaker entirely? .<snip>

However if it does it on another 20 amp circuit then I would suspect it is indeed an issue with the electronics within the machine.

You are reading correctly and yes, I've tried more than one circuit so I don't think it's a bad breaker.

G-ManBart wrote: <snip>

There are a few companies that do component level repair of welder boards, but it's surprisingly expensive, and not entirely foolproof.

<snip>

I haven't heard of the coating issue, but rather than try to solve that question I'd just see if any of the shops have that board listed...if they do it means they must have a way to work on it.

The search was a good idea. I did find one place that repaired boards and you were correct, they were surprisingly expensive. In fact, I might as well just order a new board from Lincoln, but as you pointed out, it seems they can be worked.

I guess I know what my next project is going to be.

The high expenses of repairing the board are probably due to the need of specialized equipment to acid wash the coating off. I’d ask if they recoat it after they fix it.

Poland308 wrote:The high expenses of repairing the board are probably due to the need of specialized equipment to acid wash the coating off. I’d ask if they recoat it after they fix it.

So, there is a coating?

My machine is out of warranty so I really don't have anything to lose by giving it a shot.

Hopefully, with resources like this ( https://www.vaniman.com/ultimate-confor ... val-guide/) and Mouser and Digi-Key, I can get things going again for less than $700 - $1000 ( I'll just recoat the board with hot glue )

Well, I was hoping to find some component broken open with a huge scorch mark next to it, but everything looked very clean, no bulging capacitors, no burned out resistors from what I could see. The only thing that looked even slightly discolored was the transformer

If you can find out the startup sequence you might be able to check the components in order to pin it down.

A quick Google search yielded this response on WeldingWeb:
"https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.p ... ne-startup"

Scroll to bottom to see the reply from the Repair Tech.

cj737 wrote:A quick Google search yielded this response on WeldingWeb:
"https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.p ... ne-startup"

Scroll to bottom to see the reply from the Repair Tech.

Thanks, I saw that. Problem is, I contacted Lincoln and my machine is no longer under warranty and the PCB they're talking about swapping is roughly $700 ( I paid $1000 for the machine ) so I'm really chasing a component level repair at this point. If the board has some blown component I can order from Mouser or Digi-Key for $1.50 it's worth spending a little time taking a shot.

Anyhow, since this has become less about welding and more about electronics, I started this thread Lincoln Board Repair on the EEVBlog. Hopefully, it bears some fruit and helps out someone else down the road since this does not seem to be an uncommon problem

We often diverge into topics that aren't about welding. We don't really mind. If you find a solution, be sure to let us know. Also, check out the Post Apocalyptic Inventor on YouTube. He's a very smart German fellow who specialises in making throw away stuff run again. He might be able to help

weldin mike 27 wrote:...check out the Post Apocalyptic Inventor on YouTube. ...

Subscribed to him for years. I love watching him pull stuff out of the junkyard and refurbish it. :

My brain melts when electronic talk starts. I just plug the welders in and hope they work.

G-ManBart wrote:

IndyChops wrote:So, I went to Lincoln and searched for parts. That board, if I'm not mistaken, costs about $700. Which is 70% of what I paid for the machine. This would mean that I'd have to hope for a component level repair that would almost certainly be a very small fraction of that amount. However, during my google searches I came across a posting where someone stated that component level repairs on his Lincoln (forget the model) were impossible due to the type of coating they used on the circuit board; anyone ever hear of this?

That's sort of the primary problem with all of the inverter machines that you can't avoid. The board makes up the vast majority of the cost of the machine, and the manufacturers aren't even doing component level repairs (at least not that I've heard of). Under warranty they just replace boards, and out of warranty just sell you a new board. There are a few companies that do component level repair of welder boards, but it's surprisingly expensive, and not entirely foolproof.

If you do a google search on the board part number it will usually turn up any of the shops that are repairing welder boards since most have a list of the part numbers they service. A lot of them will have either an estimated typical repair, or a fixed price to repair a board (if it can be repaired).

I haven't heard of the coating issue, but rather than try to solve that question I'd just see if any of the shops have that board listed...if they do it means they must have a way to work on it.

This is exactly what guides my purchasing decisions and why I avoid too modern machines. If I can't service it myself I'm going to avoid it as much as I can. I've fixed several older welders by replacing components on PCB boards, mostly it's capacitors.

It's not always possible to follow this philosophy, but 9 out of 10 times I manage.

DennisCA wrote:

G-ManBart wrote:

IndyChops wrote:So, I went to Lincoln and searched for parts. That board, if I'm not mistaken, costs about $700. Which is 70% of what I paid for the machine. This would mean that I'd have to hope for a component level repair that would almost certainly be a very small fraction of that amount. However, during my google searches I came across a posting where someone stated that component level repairs on his Lincoln (forget the model) were impossible due to the type of coating they used on the circuit board; anyone ever hear of this?

That's sort of the primary problem with all of the inverter machines that you can't avoid. The board makes up the vast majority of the cost of the machine, and the manufacturers aren't even doing component level repairs (at least not that I've heard of). Under warranty they just replace boards, and out of warranty just sell you a new board. There are a few companies that do component level repair of welder boards, but it's surprisingly expensive, and not entirely foolproof.

If you do a google search on the board part number it will usually turn up any of the shops that are repairing welder boards since most have a list of the part numbers they service. A lot of them will have either an estimated typical repair, or a fixed price to repair a board (if it can be repaired).

I haven't heard of the coating issue, but rather than try to solve that question I'd just see if any of the shops have that board listed...if they do it means they must have a way to work on it.

This is exactly what guides my purchasing decisions and why I avoid too modern machines. If I can't service it myself I'm going to avoid it as much as I can. I've fixed several older welders by replacing components on PCB boards, mostly it's capacitors.

It's not always possible to follow this philosophy, but 9 out of 10 times I manage.

Yup, you mirror my sentiments exactly. If you don’t need the weight or space and have managed all along it makes little sense for many to go with the sophisticated [emoji383][emoji383][emoji383] machines.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

DennisCA wrote:

G-ManBart wrote:

IndyChops wrote:So, I went to Lincoln and searched for parts. That board, if I'm not mistaken, costs about $700. Which is 70% of what I paid for the machine. This would mean that I'd have to hope for a component level repair that would almost certainly be a very small fraction of that amount. However, during my google searches I came across a posting where someone stated that component level repairs on his Lincoln (forget the model) were impossible due to the type of coating they used on the circuit board; anyone ever hear of this?

That's sort of the primary problem with all of the inverter machines that you can't avoid. The board makes up the vast majority of the cost of the machine, and the manufacturers aren't even doing component level repairs (at least not that I've heard of). Under warranty they just replace boards, and out of warranty just sell you a new board. There are a few companies that do component level repair of welder boards, but it's surprisingly expensive, and not entirely foolproof.

If you do a google search on the board part number it will usually turn up any of the shops that are repairing welder boards since most have a list of the part numbers they service. A lot of them will have either an estimated typical repair, or a fixed price to repair a board (if it can be repaired).

I haven't heard of the coating issue, but rather than try to solve that question I'd just see if any of the shops have that board listed...if they do it means they must have a way to work on it.

This is exactly what guides my purchasing decisions and why I avoid too modern machines. If I can't service it myself I'm going to avoid it as much as I can. I've fixed several older welders by replacing components on PCB boards, mostly it's capacitors.

It's not always possible to follow this philosophy, but 9 out of 10 times I manage.

Yup, you mirror my sentiments exactly. If you don’t need the weight or space and have managed all along it makes little sense for many to go with the sophisticated [emoji383][emoji383][emoji383] machines.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

DennisCA wrote:

G-ManBart wrote:

IndyChops wrote:So, I went to Lincoln and searched for parts. That board, if I'm not mistaken, costs about $700. Which is 70% of what I paid for the machine. This would mean that I'd have to hope for a component level repair that would almost certainly be a very small fraction of that amount. However, during my google searches I came across a posting where someone stated that component level repairs on his Lincoln (forget the model) were impossible due to the type of coating they used on the circuit board; anyone ever hear of this?

That's sort of the primary problem with all of the inverter machines that you can't avoid. The board makes up the vast majority of the cost of the machine, and the manufacturers aren't even doing component level repairs (at least not that I've heard of). Under warranty they just replace boards, and out of warranty just sell you a new board. There are a few companies that do component level repair of welder boards, but it's surprisingly expensive, and not entirely foolproof.

If you do a google search on the board part number it will usually turn up any of the shops that are repairing welder boards since most have a list of the part numbers they service. A lot of them will have either an estimated typical repair, or a fixed price to repair a board (if it can be repaired).

I haven't heard of the coating issue, but rather than try to solve that question I'd just see if any of the shops have that board listed...if they do it means they must have a way to work on it.

This is exactly what guides my purchasing decisions and why I avoid too modern machines. If I can't service it myself I'm going to avoid it as much as I can. I've fixed several older welders by replacing components on PCB boards, mostly it's capacitors.

It's not always possible to follow this philosophy, but 9 out of 10 times I manage.

Yup, you mirror my sentiments exactly. If you don’t need the weight or space and have managed all along it makes little sense for many to go with the sophisticated [emoji383][emoji383][emoji383] machines.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk