I was making some adjustable leveling feet for a shelf using carriage bolts and nuts. Welding the nuts on was weird, lots of black schmutz, causing me to double check that I wasn't out of gas when if finally dawned on me, duh zinc coated nuts.
I was working outside with good air flow and it was just 4 nuts, so I'm not too worried that I have poisoned myself, but this leads to my question, is there any way to remove zinc or galvanized coatings from hard to grind parts? Maybe a chemical that will strip it?
I'm not sure how one could grind small bits like a 3/8" nut or washer. Even a bolt would be rather tricky.
Not easy to find plain (uncoated) steel nuts and bolts. Am I correct in thinking the yellowish coating on Grade 8 hardware also contains zinc?
kiwi2wheels
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Just remember to use muriatic acid outside, and where fumes can't drift into the shop.
Otherwise all machinery and bare steel acquires a brown coating.
Otherwise all machinery and bare steel acquires a brown coating.
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Why bother with dangerous muriatic acid. Go to store or hardware store and buy a gallon of white vinegar with a 5 or 6% acidity. For example the last gallon I bought was white vinegar for canning and pickling. One gallon was under $5 at hardware store.
Soak your coated parts in vinager for a day or two. This works great for removing mill scale also.
Be aware of the pitfalls of using muriatic acid before going that route. For example if you leave an open container of muriatic acid in your shop it will rust everything you own.
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Soak your coated parts in vinager for a day or two. This works great for removing mill scale also.
Be aware of the pitfalls of using muriatic acid before going that route. For example if you leave an open container of muriatic acid in your shop it will rust everything you own.
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You can also buy a higher % vinegar online, all I can find on a store shelf is 5%
If you're a prime member you can get this 30%with free shipping
If you're a prime member you can get this 30%with free shipping
Richard
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I took notes on that. Will give it a go when I run dryLtBadd wrote:You can also buy a higher % vinegar online, all I can find on a store shelf is 5%
If you're a prime member you can get this 30%with free shipping
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Aaron W
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I have a tiny shop so I do most of my dirtier work outside by default, so no problem there.
I do like the sound of vinegar better than muriatic acid. The nice thing about hobby projects vs making money is I'm not usually in a huge hurry, so a day or two soaking in vinegar isn't usually going to be an issue. I do have prime so I can get the hard core vinegar.
Thanks
When I was a kid we used to make vinegar and baking soda rockets at school. I have some washing soda (super duper baking soda) for electrolysis rust removal. I wonder how big of a rocket I can make using washing soda and heavy duty vinegar?
I do like the sound of vinegar better than muriatic acid. The nice thing about hobby projects vs making money is I'm not usually in a huge hurry, so a day or two soaking in vinegar isn't usually going to be an issue. I do have prime so I can get the hard core vinegar.
Thanks
When I was a kid we used to make vinegar and baking soda rockets at school. I have some washing soda (super duper baking soda) for electrolysis rust removal. I wonder how big of a rocket I can make using washing soda and heavy duty vinegar?
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Good choice trying vinegar first. If for some reason the strong vinegar is obnoxious to work with then try the 5% vinegar before giving up. The reason I mention this is because the 5% vinegar really works like a hero. There is really no actual need for stronger. Another tip is to keep the parts submerged, as I have tried spraying projects with vinegar and placing the wet project into a large trash bag. It did remove all the mill scale as was the objective but it took more than a few days. So I now adopt the design project, cut pieces of steel, wipe grease and oil off steel with simple green, place parts in submerged container of vinegar and then build project with clean steel. No more trash bags for me unless that is the only choice. However, it will work if one is patient and out of viable alternatives.
The thing about muriatic acid that is bothersome are the health consequences of making a mistake. For example you have a bucket with some soaking parts out in the backyard. Your child or significant other does not know and somehow gets a lung full of vapors off that acid. Or let's say you forget to use a respirator while getting parts out of the bucket. The wind shifts and you just got a lung full.
The thing about muriatic acid that is bothersome are the health consequences of making a mistake. For example you have a bucket with some soaking parts out in the backyard. Your child or significant other does not know and somehow gets a lung full of vapors off that acid. Or let's say you forget to use a respirator while getting parts out of the bucket. The wind shifts and you just got a lung full.
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And not to be a safety nanny, but do remember that anything like that 30% vinegar is not quite like the stuff you get from the food store. You will probably want to wear goggles or other eye protection to keep from splashing the stuff in your eyes and you probably don't want to inhale lots of the fumes either.
For sure much better stuff to handle than muriatic, but it's not salad dressing either.
As some of the previous replies pointed out, the grocery store stuff works fine, it's just a bit slower. Much safer though.
A couple of remarks that stuck with me from a safety trainer at a place I worked, where some rather nasty acids were used from time to time were these:
"If you splash just a few drops of this stuff in your eyes it will instantly be too late to put on your goggles, and you will spend the rest of your life regretting that few seconds. Take the time to put them on first."
He would also say that "whatever you are doing is not worth losing your eyesight over." Good advice, I think.
Any of these can be used safely, just a bit of common sense and a few simple precautions is all it takes.
For sure much better stuff to handle than muriatic, but it's not salad dressing either.
As some of the previous replies pointed out, the grocery store stuff works fine, it's just a bit slower. Much safer though.
A couple of remarks that stuck with me from a safety trainer at a place I worked, where some rather nasty acids were used from time to time were these:
"If you splash just a few drops of this stuff in your eyes it will instantly be too late to put on your goggles, and you will spend the rest of your life regretting that few seconds. Take the time to put them on first."
He would also say that "whatever you are doing is not worth losing your eyesight over." Good advice, I think.
Any of these can be used safely, just a bit of common sense and a few simple precautions is all it takes.
And not to be a safety nanny, but do remember that anything like that 30% vinegar is not quite like the stuff you get from the food store. You will probably want to wear goggles or other eye protection to keep from splashing the stuff in your eyes and you probably don't want to inhale lots of the fumes either.
For sure much better stuff to handle than muriatic, but it's not salad dressing either.
As some of the previous replies pointed out, the grocery store stuff works fine, it's just a bit slower. Much safer though.
A couple of remarks that stuck with me from a safety trainer at a place I worked, where some rather nasty acids were used from time to time were these:
"If you splash just a few drops of this stuff in your eyes it will instantly be too late to put on your goggles, and you will spend the rest of your life regretting that few seconds. Take the time to put them on first."
He would also say that "whatever you are doing is not worth losing your eyesight over." Good advice, I think.
Any of these can be used safely, just a bit of common sense and a few simple precautions is all it takes.
For sure much better stuff to handle than muriatic, but it's not salad dressing either.
As some of the previous replies pointed out, the grocery store stuff works fine, it's just a bit slower. Much safer though.
A couple of remarks that stuck with me from a safety trainer at a place I worked, where some rather nasty acids were used from time to time were these:
"If you splash just a few drops of this stuff in your eyes it will instantly be too late to put on your goggles, and you will spend the rest of your life regretting that few seconds. Take the time to put them on first."
He would also say that "whatever you are doing is not worth losing your eyesight over." Good advice, I think.
Any of these can be used safely, just a bit of common sense and a few simple precautions is all it takes.
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clavius wrote:And not to be a safety nanny, but do remember that anything like that 30% vinegar is not quite like the stuff you get from the food store. You will probably want to wear goggles or other eye protection to keep from splashing the stuff in your eyes and you probably don't want to inhale lots of the fumes either.
For sure much better stuff to handle than muriatic, but it's not salad dressing either.
As some of the previous replies pointed out, the grocery store stuff works fine, it's just a bit slower. Much safer though.
A couple of remarks that stuck with me from a safety trainer at a place I worked, where some rather nasty acids were used from time to time were these:
"If you splash just a few drops of this stuff in your eyes it will instantly be too late to put on your goggles, and you will spend the rest of your life regretting that few seconds. Take the time to put them on first."
He would also say that "whatever you are doing is not worth losing your eyesight over." Good advice, I think.
Any of these can be used safely, just a bit of common sense and a few simple precautions is all it takes.
Actually, the exact opposite of a safety nanny. That's what I was suspicious about and thought it worth mentioning that the 5% version is just fine. Moral of topic could be to really understand whatever method you choose. If you decide to use the stronger vinegar then remember that nobody has yet said they use it. One member said we could buy it on Amazon but he did not say he used it and wether it was obnoxious to deal with. The SuperSize everything concept is not required in this situation.
What would be great is if someone with experience with the stronger vinegar would post a comment.
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- weldin mike 27
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I have never attempted to remove gal from anything except hot dipped parts that have very thick coating. It farts and pops but it stays joined. Unless it's tig, which do not enjoy gal, it works. Just saying not to stress too much. Just protect your breathing and go for it.
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Point taken on the super vinegar. I'll start small, we always have regular white vinegar in the house.
I like the idea of the concentrated vinegar as an alternative to nastier acids. Muriatic acid is basically less refined hydrocloric acid, which is about 10x the acidity of the acetic acid in vinegar. Even the 30% stuff is a going to be a lot safer than muriatic acid, not safe, but safer.
I do take safety pretty seriously, I'm the guy who buckles his seat belt to move the car 30 feet.
Oh and the nuts did stick to the tubing, I was just asking for the future.
I like the idea of the concentrated vinegar as an alternative to nastier acids. Muriatic acid is basically less refined hydrocloric acid, which is about 10x the acidity of the acetic acid in vinegar. Even the 30% stuff is a going to be a lot safer than muriatic acid, not safe, but safer.
I do take safety pretty seriously, I'm the guy who buckles his seat belt to move the car 30 feet.
Oh and the nuts did stick to the tubing, I was just asking for the future.
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Aaron,
Sounds like a good approach.
You are actual safer than me. I only wear a seatbelt when my wife drives[emoji3]
I think I noticed you live up in Pacific Northwest. Have traveled through the Southwest but someday I have to see Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Curious to see the results of the ancient flood from the glacier dam break Lake Missoula myself.
Just adding this. One of my next projects is going to be a 20’ staging plank/ ladder rack made from galvanized schedule 40. It will attach to the side of my shed and have metal roofing to protect them. But also easy access to retrieve them. In this situation a respirator will be used and I will weld everything with gas less fluxcore and weld outside. Avoiding the plume at all costs.
Kirk
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Sounds like a good approach.
You are actual safer than me. I only wear a seatbelt when my wife drives[emoji3]
I think I noticed you live up in Pacific Northwest. Have traveled through the Southwest but someday I have to see Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Curious to see the results of the ancient flood from the glacier dam break Lake Missoula myself.
Just adding this. One of my next projects is going to be a 20’ staging plank/ ladder rack made from galvanized schedule 40. It will attach to the side of my shed and have metal roofing to protect them. But also easy access to retrieve them. In this situation a respirator will be used and I will weld everything with gas less fluxcore and weld outside. Avoiding the plume at all costs.
Kirk
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Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
Had a good friend of mine text me last week if I’ve ever welded galvanized steel. He’s a carpenter/construction guy very little welding experience. I told him yeah but the fumes are terrible for you, turns out he’d spent the night hanging over the toilet puking. He was welding inside a big shed, no ventilation, with Smaw off an engine drive. I loaned him my PAPR helmet and he said he had zero side effects after that. He welded on that site for about a week.Radishfever wrote:Aaron,
Sounds like a good approach.
You are actual safer than me. I only wear a seatbelt when my wife drives[emoji3]
I think I noticed you live up in Pacific Northwest. Have traveled through the Southwest but someday I have to see Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Curious to see the results of the ancient flood from the glacier dam break Lake Missoula myself.
Just adding this. One of my next projects is going to be a 20’ staging plank/ ladder rack made from galvanized schedule 40. It will attach to the side of my shed and have metal roofing to protect them. But also easy access to retrieve them. In this situation a respirator will be used and I will weld everything with gas less fluxcore and weld outside. Avoiding the plume at all costs.
Kirk
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I’ve personally never had zinc poisoning but I heard it’s no fun. PAPR systems are awesome for galvy stuff. And Alu Mig.
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JayWal wrote:Had a good friend of mine text me last week if I’ve ever welded galvanized steel. He’s a carpenter/construction guy very little welding experience. I told him yeah but the fumes are terrible for you, turns out he’d spent the night hanging over the toilet puking. He was welding inside a big shed, no ventilation, with Smaw off an engine drive. I loaned him my PAPR helmet and he said he had zero side effects after that. He welded on that site for about a week.Radishfever wrote:Aaron,
Sounds like a good approach.
You are actual safer than me. I only wear a seatbelt when my wife drives[emoji3]
I think I noticed you live up in Pacific Northwest. Have traveled through the Southwest but someday I have to see Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Curious to see the results of the ancient flood from the glacier dam break Lake Missoula myself.
Just adding this. One of my next projects is going to be a 20’ staging plank/ ladder rack made from galvanized schedule 40. It will attach to the side of my shed and have metal roofing to protect them. But also easy access to retrieve them. In this situation a respirator will be used and I will weld everything with gas less fluxcore and weld outside. Avoiding the plume at all costs.
Kirk
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I’ve personally never had zinc poisoning but I heard it’s no fun. PAPR systems are awesome for galvy stuff. And Alu Mig.
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Do you think I could worry if I'm just welding 40 coped pipe joints total. I wear a 3m 2097 double filter mask under my hood. Plus I will be outside. With that said this will be my largest welding project yet. Also it's my first galvanized project. I dream of the PAPR system but I'm a brand new welder and have already invested a a good sum of bucks. Also I'm not welding for a living.
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JayWal wrote:Had a good friend of mine text me last week if I’ve ever welded galvanized steel. He’s a carpenter/construction guy very little welding experience. I told him yeah but the fumes are terrible for you, turns out he’d spent the night hanging over the toilet puking. He was welding inside a big shed, no ventilation, with Smaw off an engine drive. I loaned him my PAPR helmet and he said he had zero side effects after that. He welded on that site for about a week.Radishfever wrote:Aaron,
Sounds like a good approach.
You are actual safer than me. I only wear a seatbelt when my wife drives[emoji3]
I think I noticed you live up in Pacific Northwest. Have traveled through the Southwest but someday I have to see Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Curious to see the results of the ancient flood from the glacier dam break Lake Missoula myself.
Just adding this. One of my next projects is going to be a 20’ staging plank/ ladder rack made from galvanized schedule 40. It will attach to the side of my shed and have metal roofing to protect them. But also easy access to retrieve them. In this situation a respirator will be used and I will weld everything with gas less fluxcore and weld outside. Avoiding the plume at all costs.
Kirk
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I’ve personally never had zinc poisoning but I heard it’s no fun. PAPR systems are awesome for galvy stuff. And Alu Mig.
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Do you think I should worry if I'm just welding 40 coped pipe joints total. I wear a 3m 2097 double filter mask under my hood. Plus I will be outside. With that said this will be my largest welding project yet. Also it's my first galvanized project. I dream of the PAPR system but I'm a brand new welder and have already invested a a good sum of bucks. Also I'm not welding for a living.
Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
I don’t think you need to be worried then. Especially if you’re using gasless flux core you can set up a fan to blow fumes past your hood. And with the respirator on top of that I’d say you’re golden.
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Yeah, I can set a fan no problem. Will obviously take it serious.
Trust me when I say I want the PAPR. At the moment I’m using the Lincoln 3350 and enjoy it.
I have permission from the wife to buy what it takes. With that said I’m trying to pace myself. This month alone I bought a Tig welder, Argon cylinder 125cf and a nice Harris 356 regulator.
So my goal would be to see my progress and decide later to upgrade to a PAPR.
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Trust me when I say I want the PAPR. At the moment I’m using the Lincoln 3350 and enjoy it.
I have permission from the wife to buy what it takes. With that said I’m trying to pace myself. This month alone I bought a Tig welder, Argon cylinder 125cf and a nice Harris 356 regulator.
So my goal would be to see my progress and decide later to upgrade to a PAPR.
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Im not a full time welder either. I really love my PAPR, I play rec hockey on winter evenings and I honestly notice a big difference if I’m wearing it for grinding jobs and welding. No black snot, better stamina. And I’m not an old guy either so I’m sold on good ventilation.
Only complaint I have is i bought the Miller system it came with what was then their top of the line helmet, Titanium 9400i. And it’s terrible turned me off of Miller helmets for good. I recently got a 3350 Viking too it’s 10x the helmet in my opinion. For half the price.
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Only complaint I have is i bought the Miller system it came with what was then their top of the line helmet, Titanium 9400i. And it’s terrible turned me off of Miller helmets for good. I recently got a 3350 Viking too it’s 10x the helmet in my opinion. For half the price.
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Are you saying that a PAPR can be fitted to Viking 3350? If so I was not aware that was an option.
As far as giving a review of the 3350 I’m happy except one day I was being a screwball and put the grind mode on. Forgot, then several days later I sparked a generous arc and because I’m a total greenhorn and didn’t think anything was wrong for a little longer than I feel comfortable to admit. Got a good flash and consoled myself figuring it’s probably happened to just about everybody.
Will never touch grind mode in that hood again. There should be an audible alarm.
This is the only hood I ever used except for a short welding instruction at local trade school.
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As far as giving a review of the 3350 I’m happy except one day I was being a screwball and put the grind mode on. Forgot, then several days later I sparked a generous arc and because I’m a total greenhorn and didn’t think anything was wrong for a little longer than I feel comfortable to admit. Got a good flash and consoled myself figuring it’s probably happened to just about everybody.
Will never touch grind mode in that hood again. There should be an audible alarm.
This is the only hood I ever used except for a short welding instruction at local trade school.
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If it is possible to then I want to know how! Currently I just use my Miller on the papr and Viking for general welding and tig.Radishfever wrote:Are you saying that a PAPR can be fitted to Viking 3350? If so I was not aware that was an option.
As far as giving a review of the 3350 I’m happy except one day I was being a screwball and put the grind mode on. Forgot, then several days later I sparked a generous arc and because I’m a total greenhorn and didn’t think anything was wrong for a little longer than I feel comfortable to admit. Got a good flash and consoled myself figuring it’s probably happened to just about everybody.
Will never touch grind mode in that hood again. There should be an audible alarm.
This is the only hood I ever used except for a short welding instruction at local trade school.
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Oh I know the flash feeling I use it in grind mode for cutting and heating with oxy fuel and my klutz butt keeps forgetting to set it off grinding all the time.
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I did a quick search and Lincoln does offer a PAPR for the 3350 but there seems to be one catch. They only sell it in kit form with the hood included. Big dollars also.
From what it looks like from a real beginner vantage point is that Optrel has the edge on this technology. Also there are websites that sell that new Crystal helmet with the PAPR for less than the Lincoln kit. Much less!
From what it looks like from a real beginner vantage point is that Optrel has the edge on this technology. Also there are websites that sell that new Crystal helmet with the PAPR for less than the Lincoln kit. Much less!
Learning is the best part of life and the most painful