[finewoods]

Hi fellas,

I've had a woodworking shop for 35 years but never did any serious metal work except for sharpening tools, making shaper cutters, etc. I bought a little stick welder to help assemble a stand for my dust collector when I first opened my shop, but it hasn't been used since. My home was burglarized 7 years ago, so I studied up on MIG welding and bought a Hobart Handler 175 to make my own burglar bars, porch enclosures, and gates. That all turned out great--when my adult daughter first saw it she said, "It looks like a jail!"

The MIG welder needed a 50amp circuit, 220volt, single-phase circuit, so I had a couple installed in stategic locations. But now I wish to get into metalwork/welding in a more serious way. I've been looking at new and used equipment, reading the various recommendations on this forum and some others, and have begun acquiring equipment. Of course, the next step is to be able to plug it into a properly sized and designed power source. Right now I have a Hypertherm 85 to run a circuit for. I also came across a used Hypertherm 1650 that I could also use if I decide to buy a hand torch for it, but it's really too big for what I need. I'm keeping an eye out for a nice TIG welder, but I don't have any idea what power requirements they have. I don't really have one particular question to ask, but I'd like to know how some of you guys have dealt with your power and wiring needs as you set up your shops. I have detailed plans for what I want to do to get that Hypertherm 85 up and going, but I still need to locate and purchase the electrical components. (wire, conduit, receptacles, plugs, safety switch, etc.) The brand new prices are breathtaking for some of that stuff, I've gone to Ebay in an effort to save some money--I see lots of things that might work with regard to plugs and receptacles, but I'm not sure. I prefer to design things with a little overkill and extra capacity, but the prices are going to force me to hold things closer to minimum requirements. Anyway, if anyone has any advice or ideas, I'm eager to learn whatever I can to get up and runnin'.

I thank y'all for all I've already learned from your posts and appreciate any feedback I get.

CharleyBoy

[jpence38]

I just went through what you are talking about (as far as setting up a shop). I would be glad to help in any way I can. First need to know what kind of power you have coming in and is there the chance of 3 phase power ( do you have 3 phase out on the pole) or is it all 1 phase. One thing I can tell you now concernig the Powermax 85 is that it alone will require a 100 amp dedicated circuit if you are going to be maxing it out. It says 85 amps, but with the arc stretch when you gouge with it will push it to 100. I would say that if you are going to have 1 phase service you will need a minimun of 150 amp service. I have 200 amp, 1 phase service to my shop.

[delraydella]

I agree with jpence. With single phase 220 you'll need at least 100 to 150 amps. A tig welder alone can use up to 65 or more. I don't have 3 phase power where I work but I do have some 3 phase machines like a cut-off saw and grinder so I've use a phase converter where I've needed them. They work quite well but will only give you half the horsepower rated.

Electrical equipment can get pricey so you want to get the most bang for your buck. I've used a lot of used heavy duty on/off switches and distribution boxes to great effect. Welding cable with single pin plugs makes great feeder cable to equipment because you can never have a plug in all the right places no matter how hard you plan. Cable goes by copper prices which are high now. 6/4 SO is about $4.75 a foot now. A #2 welding cable is about $2 a foot. Next time I go in (Monday) I'll take some pictures to show what I've done.

[finewoods]

Hi fellas,

Hey, I thank Jim and Delraydella for their helpful responses. I'm going to copy and paste some the details of my situation that I've already written out to a couple of vendors on Ebay --if something is repeated or incongruent, it's because I didn't edit them properly. But they will probably answer any questions you have and give you a clearer picture of my plan.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I picked up a couple of plasma cutters that are pretty hefty--Hyperptherm 85 and Hypertherm 1650. The 85 will configure itself to electrical source, 1-phase, 3-phase, 200-600volt. The 1650 is similar, but 3-phase only. For 3-phase Hypertherm recommends a 60amp circuit for the 85, and an 80amp for the 1650. I have 220volt, 3-phase power in my shop. I will probably sell the 1650 so I can get by with just 60amps. It's my understanding that these machines only draw these high amps during a brief spike when starting the arc. The cutting amperage is far less. If I run the 85 model on 1-phase, a 100amp circuit is recommended, so I decided against that, at least for now. A safety switch that can be turned off is required, such as the kind with the typical up-down lever. Fuseable isn't required but desirable--I'm willing to pay a little more for that option.

I'm setting up a little metal-working area in one end of my shop. I acquired a plasma cutter that requires a circuit of at least 60amp capacity if it's 3-phase, 220-240volt. The machine will also work on single phase, but it would require a 100amp circuit and components for that. I originally decided that I'd run both a single-phase, 100amp and a 3-phase, 60amp (or bigger) circuit to accommodate both immediate and future needs. Well, the prices for all that became too much, so I decided to just install the bare minimum for my immediate need---60amp, 3-phase, 220-240volt. The circuit will run about 30ft and terminate on my shop's wall, first going through a safety switch. Two receptacles will come out of that--one on the inside of the shop, and one on the outside. I also want an extension cord about 25-30 feet long that will plug into the outlets and the machine's power cord--and, finally, a male plug installed on the machine's power cord. This arrangement will allow me to use this machine both inside and outside, and gives me the reach to handle most any job I encounter. My materials list follows:
---1 Square D circuit breaker 60amp, 3-phase (I have a 220v, 3-phase service panel already).
---Enough #6AWG wire to make a 30 foot long circuit (~100 feet) and 30 feet of ground wire;
---Enough 1" metal conduit to make a 30 foot circuit;
---1 safety switch (fuseable would be nice, but not essential);
---2 female wall-mounted receptacles.
For the extension cord and power cord I need:
---1 female plug;
---2 male plugs that will fit the receptacles and female plug;
---25-30 feet of #8AWG 4-wire cable.
I'm trying to save some money on Ebay buying a little here and there, but I'm not sure what fits with what.
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Well, that's about it fellas--hope it's all clear.

Hey Jim, I grew up not terribly far from your neck of the woods in the northern panhandle of West Virginia near to Weirton. Everyone around there worked for the steel mills when I was young including my dad and uncles. It's nearly all shut down now. Most everybody in that area has a heavy "western Pennsylvania" accent, even in Youngstown. I always used to laugh when I heard Dan Marino or Jim Kelly talk on TV--I'd say to myself, "Yeh, they're from the 'area' ". We're all "valley boys" I guess--Ohio River valley that is.

Thanks, Charley

[delraydella]

3 phase is a lot more efficient than single phase, and you're right, the starting amperage will draw more than the running amps. Don't forget to figure in the cost of the conduit connectors, elbows,brackets,etc. I think the plugs that would work the best for your needs would be a 4 wire twist-lock rated for 60 amps or more, but they are expensive. I paid over $80 for one such plug some years ago. Single pin connectors out of the breaker box would be a little less ($17 a pair for an LC10), but you would still have to adapt to whatever plug is on your machine.

For me,powerwise, single pin cables work the best. With some heavy duty alligator clips I can tie into any distribution box nearby and most soundstages already have single pin leads right off their main breaker boxes. It's also considered "temporary" wiring so you can get by without the electrical inspector hounding you. Since it's temporary you can pull it up and stow it away when you're done. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Steve

[jpence38]

Charley,
It is good that you have 3 phase. 3 phase equipment is a lot cheaper if you ever plan on getting more. Have a couple of questions. What is the amperage on the 3 phase service entrance panel? Have you thought of using a 60 amp load center instead of a 60 amp safety swith? You can find a load center alot cheaper than the safety disconnect and they accomplish the same thing. Is it just going to be the hobart welder and the plasma cutter you are hooking up? Oh, is there gonna be any county inspectors involved in this? Here is a link for choosing a plug and receptacle. If you go more than 60 amps then you will have to use an industrial type or hard wire it into the box.http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nem ... blade.aspx.

This is what I did in my shop, but I didn't need the ability to unplug my plasma cutter so I hard wired it.

You are difinitely right about this whole area . It is practically dead as far as the steel goes. Nothin like what it used to be. I used to drive truck years ago and was down by the river a lot. Been through Weirton many times. Without a doubt if you heard me talk you would say the same thing.

[finewoods]

Hi Jim,

Nice clean shop Jim--very nice! That's a nice crane and hoist set-up you have there. Someone has been tempting me to buy a gantry crane recently, but thankfully, it's too big to go in my shop and I don't know where it would reside outside either--it's a big yellow thing--looks like Big Bird. I'm not sure of the amps at the panel, but it's a big panel that serves my compressor, large woodworking machines, and dust collector motor. I probably want a fusible safety switch so I can cut off the power each day because one of the outlets will be outside, but I'll check into the load center option. There is an abundance of disconnect boxes on Ebay--already low-bid on a couple. After getting up to speed on the plug/receptacle options from an old Grainger catalog and asking my electrician a few questions, I've decided to go with some 60amp pin-and-sleeve components. I never would have done that except that I found everything on Ebay--even with all the shipping charges, the savings will be nearly 70-80% compared to new. Later, I'm going to look for another set on Ebay that will work for a 100amp, single-phase circuit, so I'll check out that link before taking any action with that--thanks. I shouldn't have any problem with inspections--the city of Houston can be a real pain if they catch wind of anything, but I've never heard of any county problems in this region.

As far as I know, I'll only be using a plasma cutter or a welder. There are already outlets for the Hobart 175 MIG--might need to run a bigger circuit depending on what welders I acquire in the future. I'm keeping an eye out for a nice TIG--trying to follow Jody's advice--missed out on a Syncrowave 250 recently that was close enough to Houston for local pickup, but the seller's Ebay rating was questionable--bid low and lost. We all are hungry for sound advice from experts, but when they give it publicly as Jody so generously does, the products they recommend become more scarce and expensive. Oh well.... I almost bought an Everlast 80amp plasma cutter and a PowerTIG 250ex--was right on the edge, but after asking about some nitty gritty details and giving them a chance to "Sweetin' the Deal" a bit, I became disenchanted and decided against it--still don't know about the TIG. I see a lot of other interesting welders on Ebay and Craigslist, but don't understand all the ins and outs of each model--what they are for, who they are for. There surely must be a bigger range of good choices out there than what I'm currently aware of.

Thanks again Jim,

Charley

[delraydella]

Here's what I did for my power. Note it's all "temporary" so I can move it to wherever I need it. The 3 phase machines are all hard wired into a phase shifter.

I tied in four #2 welding cable pigtails to one of our main fuse boxes. From there it runs about 25" and twofers (splits) into 2 diferent 220 4 wire 150 amp distribution boxes. I also have two 50' 6/4 SO extension cords or can use welding cable for longer power distances. Everything uses the same type plug so it is all interchangable. If I need to go on a job site, I can pack everything up and tie into any power supply with the heavy duty alligator clips that adapt into LC-10 connectors. If I get fired or move, I can also pack up all my power supplies since they aren't hard wired into the wall. That's the nicest thing about it being temporary. The hard part is the cost of all the connectors and adaptors, but I did it over time and tried to find whatever I could on sale or closeout.

[finewoods]

Hi Delraydella,

Thanks for all information, photos, and effort. Your setup is very intriguing. I'm not yet totally clear how it all works together, but I've only looked it over in the last few minutes. I'll study it some more, and show it to a friend who is more knowledgeable about electricity--maybe he can clarify some of the details. Give me some time--I'll ask questions later if I still have any. Thanks again.

Charley