Welding Tips and Tricks

Good Morning,
I recently fabricated a roll around outdoor work table using a Tab and Slot brand leg and caster kit and buying a 4 X 5 foot sheet of 1/4" steel as a top. I welded 4 pieces of all thread onto the underside of the table so as to be able to bolt the top to the Tab and Slot leg kit. Of course since the top was quite thin I had to weld a support frame around the underside perimeter to remove the droop in both north/south and east/west directions. I want to store this table outside in the elements and wanted to ask if anybody has a good recommendation as to mitigating rust without compromising the grounding abilities for welding? Wad-40, etc?

Hey Bradk
There may be a clear coat that could be applied to all but the table top, not sure about this as I haven't really looked into it, but recall hearing of metal artist that do use this on their art.

Curious to know your location, are you in an area that gets snow?

How about posting a picture of your table?

A product that may be of interest http://www.corrosionx.com . Corrosion X. Amazon sells it and there are lots of reviews.

homeboy,
I have been using CorrosionX Aviation for years and really like their products. I thought of that as well! I want to see if this Sculpt Nouveau "Clear Guard" might fit the bill as I would prefer to have a surface with no active lubricant film if I can possibly avoid it? Might have to end up using CorrosionX? All in all it would not be a deal breaker either way. Appreciate your input as well.

Brad

Hi Richard,
Thanks for the reply to my post, have table off legs right now doing some modifications otherwise I would attach picture. Yes, there is a clear coat produced by Sculpt Nouveau called "Clear Guard" which is a protective lacquer for metal. I have an email into them to see if this will work without removing the tables grounding abilities away? I actually have some for a metal sign that I plasma cut and will be in the outdoors. I live in Northern California in the Sebastopol area of Sonoma County (wine country, but no snow). I also purchased a Tab and Slot "fab block" which I keep in my garage, of course no rust issues there.
I wanted to build an outside metal work table to work on many things not just to weld on as I am 60 and have had too many years of working on things sitting on the ground. Try to use my brain at this point and sometimes actually pay attention to body mechanics, right? I guess I could always tarp the table or build a sheet metal cover but a coating would be much more convenient. I will post a response when Sculpt Nouveau responds. Got their name through Zach at ZH Fabrication, a great fellow who gives me a lot of inspirations in all his metal/wood projects.

Brad

I realize you already bought the material but had you considered stainless for the top? I have a piece of 1/4" stainless on my welding table because my shop isn't conditioned unless I'm using it, so rust is a problem.

My experience storing steel things outside (a jointer and planar) is that the moisture condensing out of the air on the cold steel is the source of most of the water that leads to rust. So putting a tarp on it almost makes things worse because it traps any moisture that condenses and won't let it evaporate. My best solution to date is cutting a piece of pink foam insulation to a size slightly larger than the steel being covered, and then putting something with enough weight on top of it to keep it pressed tightly against the steel. This keeps the air from reaching the steel top which prevents moisture from condensing. It also damps down the sudden day-night temperature changes in the steel that lead to the condensation. I spray the metal with WD-40 before I put the foam on. If you get a lot of rain, you might have to throw a tarp over the whole thing to keep the water from wicking in along the edge of the foam.

MarkL wrote:I realize you already bought the material but had you considered stainless for the top? I have a piece of 1/4" stainless on my welding table because my shop isn't conditioned unless I'm using it, so rust is a problem.

I would think that top being stainless would suck some major heat into it? Not only would it deform, but I envision it being quite able to pass a healthy burn to your hands/arms after several minutes welding on it. How’s your experience with it in practice?

My question would be how an applied coating such as Clear Guard would stand up to the rather nasty environment of a welding table top? How does it tolerate the mechanical damage and heat that it will be subjected to? It may be fine for the legs and underside of the top but I wonder about the actual working surface. I did a quick search and it seemed to be used in more static low impact environments.

This stuff is simply badass. I'm down to my last two cans of the hoard and I'm not sure if I can get more of it. It was originally acquired through a now defunct oil tool company. I first tested it on a shiny, used brake rotor and left it outside in the pouring rain. Months later, I wiped it off with brake cleaner and it was back to shiny. Edit:
I looked up the mil-spec #'s and found this. Not sure how close these two products are.
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmolin ... reventive/

cj737 wrote: I would think that top being stainless would suck some major heat into it? Not only would it deform, but I envision it being quite able to pass a healthy burn to your hands/arms after several minutes welding on it. How’s your experience with it in practice?

Stainless has a much lower thermal conductivity than carbon steel, so it doesn't draw heat out of the work piece as fast. The specific heat is the same, so once it's hot it does stay hot about the same length of time. I've not had a problem with it deforming yet, but it's on top of a piece of carbon steel, I only tig on it, and I generally do relatively small things on the bench so there isn't that much heat buildup. The one thing I don't like about it is I can't use magnetic fixtures to hold things.

MFleet wrote: Edit:
I looked up the mil-spec #'s and found this. Not sure how close these two products are.
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmolin ... reventive/

I don’t think you’d want to use the Cosmoline product you linked on a table you weld upon. It’s very thick, almost a goopy grease, hardens when it gets very hot, and would likely contaminate anything you weld from contact. It surely would protect the table surface, but may not be a good choice for regular use.

cj737 wrote:

MFleet wrote: Edit:
I looked up the mil-spec #'s and found this. Not sure how close these two products are.
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmolin ... reventive/

I don’t think you’d want to use the Cosmoline product you linked on a table you weld upon. It’s very thick, almost a goopy grease, hardens when it gets very hot, and would likely contaminate anything you weld from contact. It surely would protect the table surface, but may not be a good choice for regular use.

I hear ya . It's a tall order an honest attempt to meet the criteria for the original post:

"I want to store this table outside in the elements and wanted to ask if anybody has a good recommendation as to mitigating rust without compromising the grounding abilities for welding?"

You're thinking of the stuff gets slathered on a new rifle at the factory. The stuff that I posted a picture of will dry to the touch (slight waxy feel)and claims that you can weld through it. The stuff in the link claims to dry to the touch as well. If you can weld through it, you can ground through it.

This is another product link that may be closer to what I have:
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmolin ... -veto-344/

MFleet wrote:
You're thinking of the stuff gets slathered on a new rifle at the factory. The stuff that I posted a picture of will dry to the touch (slight waxy feel)and claims that you can weld through it. The stuff in the link claims to dry to the touch as well. If you can weld through it, you can ground through it.

This is another product link that may be closer to what I have:
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmolin ... -veto-344/

That “waxy” finish is the problem. That’s the component that hardens under heat. For instance, if you fire a gun with cosmoline in the barrel (brand new, uncleaned) a few times, that residue will be hard as a 2-part epoxy after the heat cycles. Probably a great “storage/protection” choice, but not for a welding table.

You’re right though, his needs are a tall order!

Why not try beeswax?

cj737 wrote:

MFleet wrote:
You're thinking of the stuff gets slathered on a new rifle at the factory. The stuff that I posted a picture of will dry to the touch (slight waxy feel)and claims that you can weld through it. The stuff in the link claims to dry to the touch as well. If you can weld through it, you can ground through it.

This is another product link that may be closer to what I have:
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmolin ... -veto-344/

That “waxy” finish is the problem. That’s the component that hardens under heat. For instance, if you fire a gun with cosmoline in the barrel (brand new, uncleaned) a few times, that residue will be hard as a 2-part epoxy after the heat cycles. Probably a great “storage/protection” choice, but not for a welding table.

You’re right though, his needs are a tall order!

Maybe so. The cans are old and will not spray well anymore. No way for me to properly test it out.

This is another product that I came across when I searched for a replacement:

http://chemtool.com/corrosion-inhibitor ... ventative/
Scroll down to the "WeRP 6" product. Seems difficult to find small quatities of the their products.

It would be easier if he simply made the entire table from aluminum

The second product you posted info for only has a protection time of 48 hrs. Hope you use the table every day.

cj737 wrote:It would be easier if he simply made the entire table from aluminum

I'm almost with you on that. It may come down to the question of how it is going to be used and abused. The stuff is spendy too. Would aluminum riddled with gouges and raises work the same as a rust pitted steel?

Poland308 wrote:The second product you posted info for only has a protection time of 48 hrs. Hope you use the table every day.

That may be part of good solution...just use it often Are you referring to the chemtool link? That is the only product in that link that claims to be 100% weld compatible. Is there anything else listed that looks like it would be worth the time to test?
They don't list small quantities, but that can't stop us from requesting samples.

I looked into products months back for media blast>storage hold>coating process. I will dig through those notes and report back if anything looks useful. I suspect that they turn out to be lightweight, indoor "synthetic soap" types.

MFleet wrote:

cj737 wrote:It would be easier if he simply made the entire table from aluminum

I'm almost with you on that. It may come down to the question of how it is going to be used and abused. The stuff is spendy too. Would aluminum riddled with gouges and raises work the same as a rust pitted steel?

I have a 42"x60"x3/8" aluminum topped table I use for welding sheet goods, stainless especially. It has taken some abuse, but a "bad gouge" I just fill with weld, gently grind flush. Voilá! Good as new! But it IS pricey. Mine is bolted to a steel frame I had powder coated first. It lives in an unconditioned garage shop, and has spent many a night outside with work on it (its light and portable so I use it too for Stick projects when I need a large flat work surface). My primary table is too heavy (6'x4'x3/4" steel) and its on leveling casters. Still to move it around I use a floor jack because it weighs well over 1400#.

I want to thank all for their inputs on protecting my outdoor welding/work table, much appreciated. I never heard back from Sculpt Nouveau as to my question as to using "Clear Coat" on my table but as one forum member pointed out, the product is designed to protect static metal objects from the environment i.e. non worked surfaces. I am going to clean the top of any rust and then apply CorrosionX Aviation lubricant as this should protect the surface relatively well and does not inhibit any grounding abilities. With an occasional reapplication I believe the table will survive. I guess it goes that any item that is outdoors requires occasional maintenance.

Thanks,
Brad

Paint the legs in a rustproof paint, if your earh point is on the legs leave that bit unpainted and coat with lanolin.
Regarding the top, get some lanolin, rub into both sides.
Have a local canvas place make up a canvas or herculite cover, canvas breaths better, herculite is more waterproof and uv resistant.
Lanolin is not toxic to you or the environment, will prevent spatter from sticking to the table and has been used for thousands of years to prevent rust on ferrous metals, also cheap.
Wax on, wax off, grass hopper.
That and the cover should solve your issue.

I blacksmith as a hobby and I usually take a rag, shoot some wd40 on it and wipe down my anvil and post vise with it. This would allow you to still get a good ground if you want to weld on it occasionally, something clear coat could take away- the wd40 works like a charm

I finally put up some pictures of the outdoor work/weld table (4 X 5 X 1/4" thick top).
BradK

I wipe mine down with a little mineral spirits with paste wax dissolved in it.A pint bag of paste wax and about 1/2 pint of varsol. I use the same thing on my shop floors every several weeks. I had a gallon can leak a big glob of John Deere green on the floor the other night. Peeled it right off the next morning. Same with the welding tables. Treat the steel with some Ospho after wire wheeling and put a floor wax(or my mix) on it.Like a car hood it'll bead up in the rain for many weeks if not in use.
In all reality a "full time" table never gets a chance to rust.
315 am......out to the shop.1100 feet of 1x1 fence panels to build.Good thing I have no neighbors. That Metal Devil will wake the dead