[Otto Nobedder]

JDIGGS82,

APCI (Air Products) is based out of Wilkes-Barre (or maybe Allentown). AirGas is based out of Radnor.

Both great companies, with good career packages. Both do "aspects" of what I do. Gardner Cryogenics is a division of Air Products that does everything I do, plus manufactures "new", but they're extremely secretive about it. (Gardner is OWNED by Air Products, and won't release an engineering drawing to them...)

Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

Ok I didn't want the embarrassment of posting a picture but I need the help. I am still having trouble with the root. I only had a chance to run one more root in the last few days. I talked to Lincoln Electrics Pipe Group and they gave me the following parameters; short arc down, 200ipm max, 17-21 volts, 3/32" land and gap, 120-140amps and a very slight wiggle parallel to the ground. What perplexes me is I have all the settings correct but still can not get the root. I know it has to be my gun angle and everyone else agrees.
In these pictures the far root was by another guy and the front was mine. Final settings for this pass was 200 ipm 17.5 volts, 120ish amps, .035 wire, 75/25 gas. HELP PLEASE!!
-Jonathan

[Otto Nobedder]

The x-ray truck shows up tomorrow at 8AM.

I get to take 8 hrs. overtime just to be there for it.



I'd better damn pass....

Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

Steve,
Shall we have prayer? I believe you will pass with flying colors, or black and white to be exact Unless the x-ray is in color I guess.
Can you give and advice on my 6G Mig?
-Jonathan

[Otto Nobedder]

Jonathan,

I only once attempted a 6g MIG root. (Well, more than once, for a job, but got a better offer before I was ready.)

I found the big challenge was matching the gun angle to the position as the position rotated. I found myself dragging as much as 25* in the vertical portions, and almost dead-on in the overhead.

I also found I was a bit better off keeping hot, and crossing the gap quickly, holding a bit on the toes. Too much heat in the center, and gravity takes over... Droop on top, Lack of pen. on bottom.

I don't have enough of this behind me to call my statements reliable, though, so take it for what it's worth.

Steve S

[AKweldshop]

I wider gap, and lees amperage has worked for me....
2in galvinized.

[Superiorwelding]

Jonathan,

I only once attempted a 6g MIG root. (Well, more than once, for a job, but got a better offer before I was ready.)

I found the big challenge was matching the gun angle to the position as the position rotated. I found myself dragging as much as 25* in the vertical portions, and almost dead-on in the overhead.

I also found I was a bit better off keeping hot, and crossing the gap quickly, holding a bit on the toes. Too much heat in the center, and gravity takes over... Droop on top, Lack of pen. on bottom.

I don't have enough of this behind me to call my statements reliable, though, so take it for what it's worth.

Steve S

Steve,
I appreciate your response! I am 90% sure is my gun angle. I got frustrated and put a sample on a roller and rotated the pipe away form me with a good angle and had a root that would make you proud. You may not remember but what amperage were you at then? So far I have been advised not to exceed 140amps or 200ipm. I tried 250 ipm and 19.7volts and it worked ok until the bottom. I "think" I can get it with these settings if I tried long enough. I never thought this would be this difficult for me.
-Jonathan

[Superiorwelding]

I wider gap, and lees amperage has worked for me....
2in galvinized.

That is what I thought at first too, more gap, but those I have talked to, which include CWI's say less gap with 1/8" being the max. I tried 5/32"ish and that did not go well. Worked on the rotisserie though.
-Jonathan

[JDIGGS82]

image.jpg (24.26 KiB) Viewed 2413 times

some overhead practice today

[JDIGGS82]

image.jpg (28.65 KiB) Viewed 2413 times

image.jpg (28.65 KiB) Viewed 2413 times

some more
Seems a bit cold I shoulda turned the heat up kore was 19.3 275 was gonna try 20 21 and 300 monday

[Superiorwelding]

JDIGGS82,
Dude you are doing awesome!!! Very nice.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

I wider gap, and lees amperage has worked for me....
2in galvinized.

That is what I thought at first too, more gap, but those I have talked to, which include CWI's say less gap with 1/8" being the max. I tried 5/32"ish and that did not go well. Worked on the rotisserie though.
-Jonathan

My gap was about 3/16.
1/16 land.
Downhill, holding the corners.
I never saw the inside, but the root pass from the outside, was concave.
That fence is still standing.

[Superiorwelding]

John,
Yes, but was it in the 6G position? What sch was the pipe?
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

About 1/4 wall.
2g and 5g, and a bunch of saddle copes.

Sorry, not 6g.

John

[Superiorwelding]

Well 1/4" wall would still work for my root settings anyway. Thanks for the suggestions John!
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

It wasn't the prettiest though....
Just warning you...
Why would a guy mig root anyway???

[JDIGGS82]

So what is the 6g position exactly? What size pipe are you doing and what wall thickness?

[Superiorwelding]

It wasn't the prettiest though....
Just warning you...
Why would a guy mig root anyway???

John,
Mig root was chosen for many reasons. First is the production you get out of mig vs. tig or stick. I eventually want do STT or RMD for the root but don't have a machine yet. Second, there is nothing wrong with a mig root at all, I just don't have it down yet. Third, because it is easier to teach to others than say a tig root. Most if not all of the major shops in this area do a mig root with mig fill and covers and are performing ASME 9 procedures.
-Jonathan

[Superiorwelding]

So what is the 6g position exactly? What size pipe are you doing and what wall thickness?

Not sure if you were talking to me or John but will answer anyway 6G pipe is tilted at a 45* where once you set your height you are locked in and must weld around the pipe. It is generally considered the most difficult testing position except for 6GR.
I am testing on 6" sch 80 pipe and later will test on 2"-sch 80 with TIG.
-Jonathan

[kermdawg]

Theres nothing wrong with mig at all, if it's done properly. Theres just ALOT of people that pull the trigger and spit out a decent looking bead and think their welding. But when you hit it with a hammer it breaks apart faster than cold 6013.

[Otto Nobedder]

Yeah,

The MIG root (W/ FCAW dual-shield out) I was practicing was for ASME heavy-wall boiler tube. It was about production. Frankly, I could have done it faster and more reliably with 6010.

BTW, got to put in 8 at time-and-a-half for 3 hrs with the x-ray truck today.

All x-rays are a pass, so that's a load off my mind. I did feel good about the welds, but the rework that a "fail" would have required would have completely ruined my day. This is the first X-ray work I've done in over a year, so I was a bit nervous.

Also, the guys from Accuren, once they found out I do helium leak testing and dye-penetrant, were trying to hire me...

All in all, a really good day. I got a great deal done with no one in the shop to bother me. I did as much as a typical workday, AND changed the radiator in my truck!

Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

Steve,
I am glad everything turned out good. One can never complain when you get paid for more hours than you had to work.

I have been offered jobs by our vendors and clients. One wanted to match dollar for dollar with better benefits. One I am entertaining, though it would be a while before I were to move on to the next adventure. They are offering basically my own shop back, which I want badly. Only time will tell.
-Jonathan

[Otto Nobedder]

I mis-communicated a bit... I did stay eight hours. And got eight hours of work done. However, I got that eight hours of work done in about five, allowing time for the other stuff I fit in...


Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

I mis-communicated a bit... I did stay eight hours. And got eight hours of work done. However, I got that eight hours of work done in about five, allowing time for the other stuff I fit in...


Steve S

Oh well then it never hurts to get paid to do things for yourself/stuff you wanted done.
-Jonathan

[Superiorwelding]

Here is one for you John!
-Jonathan