[Ryan]

Hello all. I am trying to make a tough decision on a welder. I just got my shop built and am starting to outfit it with some new equipment. I currently have a lincoln wire matic 250. It's just an okay machine. It has some random stuttering issue that I've given up trying to troubleshoot. I am not a big fan of mig welding. I like it when I have alot of fab bing and tacking. I've been using an ac 225 buzz box for the last two years and I use it when I need a real man's weld. However, I despise the thing. Everytime I use my neighbor's miller bobcat I fall into a dream state. Oh how I long for a sweet arc.

So, my problem. I can't decide what I really want. I could happily replace both welders but I am trying to minimize my purchasing. I will have a cnc plasma table coming soon. I really really want to learn tig and have to learn to weld aluminum. However I have never used a tig machine. I've been researching this process for years and have watched most of Jody's videos on tig welding. It looks tough. Not sure if I want to get into something else with a steep learning curve just yet. But boy I would love to have a machine with a sweet arc for stick welding.

As for price range I'm thinking somewhere around $1600 for the machine. I'm not worried about budgeting the bottle and consumables. I have had my eye on that Everlast 250ex for a while. Seems like it has all I could want. But I started looking at the mts 251 and the mig 275p. I see that guys are doing some sweet aluminum welding with their spool guns with pulse. I didn't know thin aluminum with a spool gun was possible. And it looks faster which I like. The 275 also has the option for a push pull gun which is pretty cool. I've also been looking at the used market. I found an insane deal on a lincoln square wave 275 with cooler for $1500 and a syncrowave 250 with pulse for the same price. I am second in line to look at them. The only issue is power consumption. I will be running a hypertherm powermax 65 or 85 on my cnc table. Of course right out the chute I won't be running the welder wide open while the plasma is going. But all of you know there comes a time. It's just so hard to walk away from these beautiful pigs. Though I surely don't want to buy an indy car to go grocery shopping. I want to get some opinions on used and new equipment. I do lean towards inverter based machines but I love old school reliability. I drive a ford idi diesel lol

And also what should I do about aluminum. Nobody in my county does aluminum or even tig welding. In fact, there is only one welder and he is never working. I'm already doing some fabricating out of a gravel floor "shed". The community seems to have alot of interest in what I have been doing on the side.

Another thing I consider is breakdown. I am a former owner op truck driver so this is important too. If I get an Everlast and it craps under warranty it will be gone for 3 months. This being a business I will either have to lean on my current machines or buy another. Buying another isn't completely out of the question if I love it and it makes me money. If I buy a used red or blue machine, I can choose a few different local places to take it to. But it will cost me money too.

Here is a breakdown of what I'm considering. Please add or subtract as you see fit.
Everlast 250ex: What's to say?
Everlast mts 251si: multi process, pulse feature, spool gun for aluminum, 40% Duty Cycle at 250 tig/200 stick, 120/240v
Everlast 275p: synergistic and pulse features, spool or push-pull gun, 50% Duty Cycle at 275a mig/200a stick
Miller syncrowave 250 needs no introduction
Lincoln square wave 275 probably gone already otherwise out of my price range I think
Miller multimatic 200: I just think these are cool. Not quite a shop machine but I can hook it up to the gen and weld anywhere
Dinosaurs: miller dialarc hf, miller a/bp, hobart tigwave 250, heliarc 306 fully loaded (been watching this one), miller 330st aircrafter, miller syncrowave 300 (too big?), lincoln idealarc 300/300 tig hf, miller dx250 multiprocess (what's this worth with only 20hrs?)
I will only have 200a amp single phase service. I may be stuck with an inverter machine. Don't know
Anybody else's head spinning?

[Farmwelding]

If the syncro is a good machine, I would go with that for tig and stick. As for the multimatic 200, I think you would rather go get the multimatic 215 or powermig 210mp. Cheaper, better. Just my opinion of course. Te syncros are good machines and are bullet proof-provided they haven't been destroyed already.

[Ryan]

Thanks for the insight. I had a feeling there would be lots of love for the syncrowave and for good reason I've read. My only concern is power consumption. I did some reading up on the syncrowave 250 draw and am a bit confused. Some say they run their machine on 70amp breaker and 6awg? Is that a branch or dedicated? I would do alot of stick welding but I don't see myself maxing it out.

[kiwi2wheels]

My 0.02c ..........forget the Aircrafter and Syncrowave 300 for age and reliability reasons.

If you don't go the new inverter route, I'd lean towards the Lincoln square wave 275 with cooler for $1500 or the Syncrowave 250 , then Idealarc 300/300 as second option. In both cases, they should be complete packages so you can have someone who is good on TIG check them out thoroughly. Don't discount a Dialarc in good condition at the right price either.

Your available power source may be the deciding factor.

[Louie1961]

A syncrowave 250 needs 6 gauge feeders, but it absolutely does not need a sub panel unless you are more than say 80 feet from the main panel. The manual recommends a 110 amp breaker. I love my Syncrowave, it is a REALLY good stick welder. As far as it being a power hog, that is only really true if you are running a production environment. I pay an extremely high price for power (around 20 cents per KWh delivered). I determined that if I weld 8 hours a week, which is a lot for me, I might spend an extra $10 per month on electricity. It definitely takes a circuit that can deliver higher amps than an inverter would require, but the cost of actual electricity used is going to be peanuts unless you run it 60 hours a week. A lot of folks also make the mistake of thinking "oh it needs a 110 amp breaker, so I have to wire it with 2 gauge". That just isn't the case. Heck, I ran mine on a 50 amp breaker for a long time.

Another welder you may want to consider is the ESAB fabricator 252i. https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/ ... g-w1004401

For $1700, it is a 300 amp MIG/TIG/Stick welder. it is very well reviewed, and some folks run .035 dual shield through it. It is reportedly a good stick welder with arc force control and hot start, and it will do DC TIG with a foot pedal. I really do think this is probably the best bargain out there right now.

[Ryan]

Thanks for the advice. The esab looks like a nice machine.

[Farmwelding]

Thanks for the advice. The esab looks like a nice machine.

Only thing that the ESAB lacks is the ability to weld aluminum with tig. Other than that I agree that the ESAB is a pretty good deal. Just depends on what you want to do.

[Ryan]

Anyone know anything about a l-tec heliarc 306 hf? Comes complete with cooler, torch, stick leads and cart. Looks nice but are these reliable?

[Notapro]

I have a L tec 250 and love it, it requires a 100 amp breaker but i run on a 60 with good results. It came with a nice bernard cooler and 18 torch. I dont like the stiff leads for the torch but it stick welds like a DREAM. Parts for these machines are hard to come by and I believe L tec was bought by Esab. their 252 looks alot like my 250.
I really do like it, It starts on low amps well and can cook 1/4" aluminum. peak amps is 320 for my machine. I was worried when I bought it but the price was right and I was tired of looking . I dont regret the purchase.

[Ryan]

Thanks for your reply. That sounds like a nice machine there. I am tempted to go check the heliarc 306 out. I am sketchy about it breaking down and being a boat anchor. But if it is in good working order I wonder what it's worth. They are asking $1000. Seems kinda high to me as its a one shot deal. If it breaks down I would be left with some leads and water cooler on a nice green cart. A used syncrowave with all the same trimmings might run me $2k from what I've been seeing. I too am growing tired of looking. I can in no way justify buying a new blue or red machine. Especially considering how much the Hypertherms cost. I almost just went with an ahp alpha tig but I don't want a doa pos with no customer service. Not worth the gamble.

[Popeye the old miner]

Hello all. I am trying to make a tough decision on a welder. I just got my shop built and am starting to outfit it with some new equipment. I currently have a lincoln wire matic 250. It's just an okay machine. It has some random stuttering issue that I've given up trying to troubleshoot. I am not a big fan of mig welding. I like it when I have alot of fab bing and tacking. I've been using an ac 225 buzz box for the last two years and I use it when I need a real man's weld. However, I despise the thing. Everytime I use my neighbor's miller bobcat I fall into a dream state. Oh how I long for a sweet arc.

So, my problem. I can't decide what I really want. I could happily replace both welders but I am trying to minimize my purchasing. I will have a cnc plasma table coming soon. I really really want to learn tig and have to learn to weld aluminum. However I have never used a tig machine. I've been researching this process for years and have watched most of Jody's videos on tig welding. It looks tough. Not sure if I want to get into something else with a steep learning curve just yet. But boy I would love to have a machine with a sweet arc for stick welding.

As for price range I'm thinking somewhere around $1600 for the machine. I'm not worried about budgeting the bottle and consumables. I have had my eye on that Everlast 250ex for a while. Seems like it has all I could want. But I started looking at the mts 251 and the mig 275p. I see that guys are doing some sweet aluminum welding with their spool guns with pulse. I didn't know thin aluminum with a spool gun was possible. And it looks faster which I like. The 275 also has the option for a push pull gun which is pretty cool. I've also been looking at the used market. I found an insane deal on a lincoln square wave 275 with cooler for $1500 and a syncrowave 250 with pulse for the same price. I am second in line to look at them. The only issue is power consumption. I will be running a hypertherm powermax 65 or 85 on my cnc table. Of course right out the chute I won't be running the welder wide open while the plasma is going. But all of you know there comes a time. It's just so hard to walk away from these beautiful pigs. Though I surely don't want to buy an indy car to go grocery shopping. I want to get some opinions on used and new equipment. I do lean towards inverter based machines but I love old school reliability. I drive a ford idi diesel lol

And also what should I do about aluminum. Nobody in my county does aluminum or even tig welding. In fact, there is only one welder and he is never working. I'm already doing some fabricating out of a gravel floor "shed". The community seems to have alot of interest in what I have been doing on the side.

Another thing I consider is breakdown. I am a former owner op truck driver so this is important too. If I get an Everlast and it craps under warranty it will be gone for 3 months. This being a business I will either have to lean on my current machines or buy another. Buying another isn't completely out of the question if I love it and it makes me money. If I buy a used red or blue machine, I can choose a few different local places to take it to. But it will cost me money too.

Here is a breakdown of what I'm considering. Please add or subtract as you see fit.
Everlast 250ex: What's to say?
Everlast mts 251si: multi process, pulse feature, spool gun for aluminum, 40% Duty Cycle at 250 tig/200 stick, 120/240v
Everlast 275p: synergistic and pulse features, spool or push-pull gun, 50% Duty Cycle at 275a mig/200a stick
Miller syncrowave 250 needs no introduction
Lincoln square wave 275 probably gone already otherwise out of my price range I think
Miller multimatic 200: I just think these are cool. Not quite a shop machine but I can hook it up to the gen and weld anywhere
Dinosaurs: miller dialarc hf, miller a/bp, hobart tigwave 250, heliarc 306 fully loaded (been watching this one), miller 330st aircrafter, miller syncrowave 300 (too big?), lincoln idealarc 300/300 tig hf, miller dx250 multiprocess (what's this worth with only 20hrs?)
I will only have 200a amp single phase service. I may be stuck with an inverter machine. Don't know
Anybody else's head spinning?

Ryan ...You talked about using your neighbors Bobcat and how much you liked the way it welds.
let me give you another something to think about. Most of my life Ive been using engine drive welders..big ones, little ones and in between ones. I started out on an old Lincoln pipeliner SA200 that was built in the late 50s..the motor eventually blew after 4 years of steady stick welding with 3/32 to 1/4 inch 7018 rods rebuilding everything from dragline buckets to mufflers for heavy equipment. I bought the thing for 50 bucks and rebuilt the motor and ran it 3 more years at home and in the mines. I ran some big Miller and Lincoln diesels as well and a few Bobcats, Trailblazers, and Lincoln Rangers. These days I am using a Trailblazer 350 Pro that the guy I am contracted to owns, or my own Miller 502D, that I am in the process of building a rig for when I get time.

Now Ive also used some of these new inverter type things on construction, and I can honestly say I wasn't very impressed with any of them...just didn't seem very smooth as compared to an engine drive type machine, and ive stick welded and ran flux core with them...and wasn't thrilled with them at all.

If you watch the paper, and find some equipment sale flyers and such you can pick up a decent engine drive for about 1500 bucks, that's for maybe a trailblazer or ranger, the bigger ones might be 2 or 3 grand for an older machine, 5 or 6 for a newer one depending how big you wanna go and your desire for power...build a trailer and you got portability and you can do tig, stick, flux core and anything else you want to do, if it don't have CV capability you can still run most flux core wires on CC, and some wires seem to run better on CC, don't know why but Ive done it a lot.

If you've got some mechanical ability they aren't that hard to work on if the need arises.

Just thought I would give you another idea.

[kiwi2wheels]

Anyone know anything about a l-tec heliarc 306 hf? Comes complete with cooler, torch, stick leads and cart. Looks nice but are these reliable?

Have a read through the links here.

http://www.google.com/search?q=L-tec+He ... GGHP_en-GB

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?33030-Linde-Weldrs Info on parts, etc for L-tec welders.

[Ryan]

Ryan ...You talked about using your neighbors Bobcat and how much you liked the way it welds.
let me give you another something to think about. Most of my life Ive been using engine drive welders..big ones, little ones and in between ones. I started out on an old Lincoln pipeliner SA200 that was built in the late 50s..the motor eventually blew after 4 years of steady stick welding with 3/32 to 1/4 inch 7018 rods rebuilding everything from dragline buckets to mufflers for heavy equipment. I bought the thing for 50 bucks and rebuilt the motor and ran it 3 more years at home and in the mines. I ran some big Miller and Lincoln diesels as well and a few Bobcats, Trailblazers, and Lincoln Rangers. These days I am using a Trailblazer 350 Pro that the guy I am contracted to owns, or my own Miller 502D, that I am in the process of building a rig for when I get time.

Now Ive also used some of these new inverter type things on construction, and I can honestly say I wasn't very impressed with any of them...just didn't seem very smooth as compared to an engine drive type machine, and ive stick welded and ran flux core with them...and wasn't thrilled with them at all.

If you watch the paper, and find some equipment sale flyers and such you can pick up a decent engine drive for about 1500 bucks, that's for maybe a trailblazer or ranger, the bigger ones might be 2 or 3 grand for an older machine, 5 or 6 for a newer one depending how big you wanna go and your desire for power...build a trailer and you got portability and you can do tig, stick, flux core and anything else you want to do, if it don't have CV capability you can still run most flux core wires on CC, and some wires seem to run better on CC, don't know why but Ive done it a lot.

If you've got some mechanical ability they aren't that hard to work on if the need arises.

Just thought I would give you another idea.

Popeye: Thanks for your insight. I've come close to picking up an engine drive a time or two. I really like them. I do see myself having one in the future if I do well with my business. However, an engine drive wouldn't be as practical for my shop. I don't think I can afford to run it all the time for shop fabrication purposes. Also, mobile welding is a tough business around here. You work really hard to make a little money. If the coal industry comes back, that may change for me. For now, I will only be working out of my shop. But you have me wanting an engine drive more now I appreciate your testimony. On that note, I did find a guy with an old diesel miller that has been sitting. Don't know the model but it is a 250 and the diesel looks like an air cooled unit. I love odd ball diesels.


As for these multi process machines. The esab seems to be pretty nice. However, the Everlast 251si has pulse in mig and tig and hf start in tig. Also comes with the tig package including foot pedal. The esab is lift start with no pedal and is 1800 something for the tig setup. The Everlast has a close enough duty cycle but tops out at 250 amps. Both of these are super neat to me. I read a rumor that everlast is coming out with an ac/dc multi process. Now I cant find where.

I may have ruled out a transformer machine for now. I could surely make it work, but I forgot to mention I will also be building a powder coat oven. Adding that in may seal the fate of the power hungry dinos.

Does anyone know anything about using a spool gun with pulse for thin aluminum? I read through a thread on another forum an aluminum boat builder has an Everlast powermig 275p and spool gun. He is very happy with it.

Still haven't written off the power tig 250ex.

The thought of getting rid of that old Lincoln wire matic 250 with a multi seems nice.

[Otto Nobedder]

Ryan, the ac/dc multi-process unit from Everlast isn't a rumor. I've spoken to Oleg, president of Everlast USA, on Instagram about this machine. It has not met it's projected release date, but I've seen pictures of the production prototype, and it's not much bigger than the 250EXT. Just enough extra room for a 10" spool of MIG wire.

I need to bug him about it again, to see when the release is expected to be, as of now.

Steve

[Ryan]

Ryan, the ac/dc multi-process unit from Everlast isn't a rumor. I've spoken to Oleg, president of Everlast USA, on Instagram about this machine. It has not met it's projected release date, but I've seen pictures of the production prototype, and it's not much bigger than the 250EXT. Just enough extra room for a 10" spool of MIG wire.

I need to bug him about it again, to see when the release is expected to be, as of now.

Steve

Oh I see. Well I wish I could find out when they will be out. Sounds like just the ticket. Especially considering I'm really looking at a multi process now. I can see both the Everlast mts251si and the esab fabricator 252whatever.

Isn't esab, tweco, and thermal arc the same unit?

[Poland308]

I believe so and I think they own victor as well.

[Ryan]

Just an update. I have ruled out Everlast. Though I would love to play with one, I need something more than a toy that could be a boat anchor for six months if it breaks down. However, I still want a 250ex for my shop. Maybe next year.

I am really looking at thermal arc/tweco/esab 3 in 1 units. Just not sure which will work. The fabricator 252i may be the likely choice. However the rebel 235 has my interest. Not sure if the smaller 211 and 215 would have enough punch for me with heavy equipment repairs.

[ryanjames170]

i can second the watch the papers and talk to older welders, never know you might find a deal like i did.. i got a running Miller Bluestar 2E for about $250 (225A machine not the new portable gen style unit) as i was saying talk to some welders who have them as you might run into a thing were u can buy it off them if they are looking to upgrade IE give them cash in hand to help pay for the upgrade.

one thing i can say though what ever you do buy make sure it is runable and you can get parts for it dont buy something you cant find parts for no matter how cheap.. becuase when you get it you want to do a tune up to it.. evan if they said it was just done..

[jmedic25]

Hey guys,

Just my two cents...I have been running an Everlast I-mig 230 for the past two months. It is a new welder and so am I. I have done a mountain of research on these welders and have found various opinions and reviews. All I can offer is that my welder has performed beautify for me so far. Many of the online opinions I have seen we not true in my case so far. An example is that when you pull the cover off you find glue everywhere and wires exposed. This was not the case with my purchase. I cant speak to the longevity of this unit so only time will tell. I can say that I got an all inclusive mig welder that will do stick as well. Good flowmeter, decent gun, decent stinger. 25.5V capacity when wired in 220. It comes with a 5 year warranty for under 1200$. As previously stated, I am not an expert..I am new..But im not new to tools. I know when I see quality. All I can say is I am happy thus far with my Everlast welder and Plasma cutter.
Good Luck and Reguards,
Justin

[Ryan]

Jmedic25,

Thanks for your review on the Everlast 230i. I nearly bought one right when they came out I don't doubt the quality, capability, or craftsmanship of Everlast welders. My concern is when/if it does go down my business will be without a tool that I rely on to make a living. Sure it may be covered under warranty but 3 to 6 months wait is just flat out not going to work for me. I would end up buying another welder. So I decided to give everlast a pass this time around. They just simply cannot compete with local warranty service.

[MosquitoMoto]

Jmedic25,

Thanks for your review on the Everlast 230i. I nearly bought one right when they came out I don't doubt the quality, capability, or craftsmanship of Everlast welders. My concern is when/if it does go down my business will be without a tool that I rely on to make a living. Sure it may be covered under warranty but 3 to 6 months wait is just flat out not going to work for me. I would end up buying another welder. So I decided to give Everlast a pass this time around. They just simply cannot compete with local warranty service.

This is a good point. If you are relying on a machine for business, you'd be crazy to invest in one that doesn't come with a guarantee of an overnight fix for any problem you might have. No matter how good Everlast or any brand might be, if you have a glitch and can't get it sorted very quickly for whatever reason, other people's positive experiences with the brand will be cold comfort as you watch your earning power evaporate.

I am in Australia and bought a machine closely modelled on Everlast - I think it might just be a re-brand. I bought it for its features, sure, but also on the strength that locally, the seller has a spotless reputation for fixing problems instantly, even if that means shipping a new machine to you overnight while the problem with your own machine is solved. A minor problem with my machine thus far has been a chance for the seller to demonstrate this rock solid reputation beautifully. Called the guy on New Year's Day while he was on holidays...he answered instantly and stayed with me until we sorted the hiccup, same day.

Any welder is only as good as the people, the plan and the reputation that stand behind it.


Moz

[Ryan]

Jmedic25,

Thanks for your review on the Everlast 230i. I nearly bought one right when they came out I don't doubt the quality, capability, or craftsmanship of Everlast welders. My concern is when/if it does go down my business will be without a tool that I rely on to make a living. Sure it may be covered under warranty but 3 to 6 months wait is just flat out not going to work for me. I would end up buying another welder. So I decided to give Everlast a pass this time around. They just simply cannot compete with local warranty service.

This is a good point. If you are relying on a machine for business, you'd be crazy to invest in one that doesn't come with a guarantee of an overnight fix for any problem you might have. No matter how good Everlast or any brand might be, if you have a glitch and can't get it sorted very quickly for whatever reason, other people's positive experiences with the brand will be cold comfort as you watch your earning power evaporate.

I am in Australia and bought a machine closely modelled on Everlast - I think it might just be a re-brand. I bought it for its features, sure, but also on the strength that locally, the seller has a spotless reputation for fixing problems instantly, even if that means shipping a new machine to you overnight while the problem with your own machine is solved. A minor problem with my machine thus far has been a chance for the seller to demonstrate this rock solid reputation beautifully. Called the guy on New Year's Day while he was on holidays...he answered instantly and stayed with me until we sorted the hiccup, same day.

Any welder is only as good as the people, the plan and the reputation that stand behind it.


Moz

Very well said! Now if Everlast had a reputation of sending a "loaner" while mine was being repaired I would give green stronger consideration. Sounds like you did business with a REAL professional who understands how the industry SHOULD work.

[Ryan]

Well, I went to my LWS and ordered the Esab Rebel emp 235ic. I also ordered a Hypertherm Powermax 85 and he gave me a hell of a deal on the machine and hand torch bundle. Since I was already buying the plasma I lucked out. It was more like getting money off the welder. Thanks for all the input. I will do my best to review the machine for everyone. Though I've never really done a product review. I would be happy to demonstrate anything or answer any questions that I can about the rebel.

[Farmwelding]

Well, I went to my LWS and ordered the Esab Rebel emp 235ic. I also ordered a Hypertherm Powermax 85 and he gave me a hell of a deal on the machine and hand torch bundle. Since I was already buying the plasma I lucked out. It was more like getting money off the welder. Thanks for all the input. I will do my best to review the machine for everyone. Though I've never really done a product review. I would be happy to demonstrate anything or answer any questions that I can about the rebel.

OOOOOHHHH... I want one of those powermax 85s. I've used them and they cut like hot knife through warm butter. I cut 3/8" plate a lot for practice pieces and it takes like 5 seconds to get across 7" not at full amperage. As for that rebel, I've heard a lot of good things, but would like to try one someday. I look forward to your review now.

[Ryan]

I'm excited about the plasma. I've only watched an instructor demonstrate one and on TV and vids of course. For whatever reason that instructor wouldn't let "the Marine" try it out.

What sucks is my shop isn't even wired in yet so I'll be stuck staring at it for a few weeks lol. It just worked out they gave me a break if I got em both together. I'm gonna be running around giggling like a giddy little school girl with that baby. It will be a "sight" as they say around here.

As soon as I get the rebel it's going right to work. I needed it like last week! I will certainly be putting it to the test. I have some through floor subframe connectors to fab into a fox body mustang at a friends garage. This type of work is why I chose the dual voltage rebel over the fabricator 252. Hopefully the lcd screen and new fandangled bells and whistles hold up. I wonder if they anticipated selling a machine with 100% satisfaction guarantee to a Grunt. I may change their world

If anyone is in the London, Ky area I would be happy to demo it when I get my building finished. I may not be the best reviewer as my welding aptitude is nothing to write home about. And I've never tig welded.