Hey guys....i'm in a dilemma now concerning the Argon gas Shield....My concerns are and have put a pause on purchasing a Tig welder...As my garage is attached to my house and its 10 inches lower from the house need to step up 12 inches to get into the service door....and that flat part as you come in goes down to the playroom.... I have been reading Horror Stories about argon and pooling and penetrating and going downwards to lower levels of a house....In my garage i have a backdoor that leads to the backyard and such....My garage Dimensions are 20`long 12`wide 8`6 height and a sewer drain in the middle of the concrete floor....I don't wan to put my Family in danger at all....What would i need to make sure that no Argon goes down towards the playroom as in ventilation sense....or am i lost cause...I need some responsible answers from the experts on here..Please....
I did also Email jody about his for him to do a safety video about argon but no answer from him yet...guess he's busy and all...
Thanks to all who can advise me..will be appreciated...
noddybrian
- noddybrian
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I routinely weld in confined spaces / on boats in chain lockers / in bilge spaces etc - build up of fuel gasses / welding fumes & other heavier than air contaminants are a concern - but the key to this I think is to rationalize the potential concentration for the given air volume & provide adequate ventilation - I usually have a powerful fan & portable air trunking in 10" diameter with me & blow clean air to the area I'm welding in which displaces the fumes - in a garage situation such as yours you have 2000 cubic feet ( approx ) volume & you maybe releasing 20 cfm of argon into it - that would be like 100 hours worth to totally fill it if there was no other air movement - so surely the odd hour of hobby welding would not create an unacceptable argon content - natural movement of air from opening doors will likely clear this - but if your genuinely worried there are relatively cheap monitoring alarms available & a small extractor fan piped out through a wall would create enough air flow to eliminate the problem.
I don't want to put you off - but using space that's part of your house for welding I'd be more concerned about the potential for sparks to cause something to smoulder un-noticed & create a fire hazard - obviously if you have brick walls & a concrete floor this is also a relatively small risk - everything we do has a risk - but death by argon poisoning is still pretty rare.
I don't want to put you off - but using space that's part of your house for welding I'd be more concerned about the potential for sparks to cause something to smoulder un-noticed & create a fire hazard - obviously if you have brick walls & a concrete floor this is also a relatively small risk - everything we do has a risk - but death by argon poisoning is still pretty rare.
- Braehill
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I'm not sure where you're reading these horror stories at. I've worked in the industrial gas business since 1995 and I'm not hearing these stories. But to your concern.
OK you'll have to forgive me because I'm doing the math in my head, but here goes. Your garage as Brian said has around 2040 cubic feet. A large Argon cylinder is 330 standard cubic feet @70 d/f @ 2400 psig. The air in your garage is made up of 78% nitrogen, a simple asphyxiant, 20.5% Oxygen, 1% Argon and the rest is made up of the rare gases. So if my mental math is even close you would have to displace 80 scf of Oxygen per hour to make your garage unsafe (16.5% lower exposure level) let alone your whole house.
Most tig welding is done at under 20 scf an hour. (15.5 hrs of steady welding for a 330cf cylinder) and most well insulated houses have a total air exchange in less than 4 hours. Even in a worst case scenario if you tipped over a fresh cylinder of Argon and knocked the valve off your family occupying the house would be more Oxygen deprived if they had sleep apnea.
You would have a better chance of your family being killed from space junk from the now suspended space shuttle program. But not to worry they'll all die from the affects of global warming before that anyway.
If you're that concerned, put the cylinder outside and chain it to the wall and run a hose under the door that you can leave open a few inches to keep fresh air coming in.
Len
OK you'll have to forgive me because I'm doing the math in my head, but here goes. Your garage as Brian said has around 2040 cubic feet. A large Argon cylinder is 330 standard cubic feet @70 d/f @ 2400 psig. The air in your garage is made up of 78% nitrogen, a simple asphyxiant, 20.5% Oxygen, 1% Argon and the rest is made up of the rare gases. So if my mental math is even close you would have to displace 80 scf of Oxygen per hour to make your garage unsafe (16.5% lower exposure level) let alone your whole house.
Most tig welding is done at under 20 scf an hour. (15.5 hrs of steady welding for a 330cf cylinder) and most well insulated houses have a total air exchange in less than 4 hours. Even in a worst case scenario if you tipped over a fresh cylinder of Argon and knocked the valve off your family occupying the house would be more Oxygen deprived if they had sleep apnea.
You would have a better chance of your family being killed from space junk from the now suspended space shuttle program. But not to worry they'll all die from the affects of global warming before that anyway.
If you're that concerned, put the cylinder outside and chain it to the wall and run a hose under the door that you can leave open a few inches to keep fresh air coming in.
Len
Last edited by Braehill on Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now go melt something.
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Len
Instagram @lenny_gforce
Len
- Braehill
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Sorry, I forgot the simple answer to your concerns. Buy or rent a 80 cf cylinder and you'll lower you chances to right around zero.
Len
Len
Now go melt something.
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Len
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Len
Hey guys I thank you for your answers ....had to show this thread to my wife as she was more of not me having a tig welder in the garage.....I will rent a 80 cf bottle....but what about the sewer in the middle of the garage ...shouldnt that be sealed cause that 4" pipe leads through the garage and goes down and meets at a joint in the playroom...then leads to the outside to the city infrastructure....
- Braehill
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John,
If that drain doen't leak water I don't think it's going to leak Argon gas either, but if your worried about it make your first project with your newly aquired tig welder constructing a cap that fits tight over the drain. Make it removable so the drain still functions while your not welding. Sewer gas (Hydrogen Sulfide) is probably more dangerous in the grand sceme of things than the Argon, and your family hasn't perished yet with that said joint in the playroom.
Explain to the wife all the things you can build for her in the garden and most of her concerns will disipate with the excess Argon from your welding. Show her plans for shepard's hooks, trelesses and benches and the like and by the time it comes time to make them for her, her argument about the Argon will have been proven false.
Len
If that drain doen't leak water I don't think it's going to leak Argon gas either, but if your worried about it make your first project with your newly aquired tig welder constructing a cap that fits tight over the drain. Make it removable so the drain still functions while your not welding. Sewer gas (Hydrogen Sulfide) is probably more dangerous in the grand sceme of things than the Argon, and your family hasn't perished yet with that said joint in the playroom.
Explain to the wife all the things you can build for her in the garden and most of her concerns will disipate with the excess Argon from your welding. Show her plans for shepard's hooks, trelesses and benches and the like and by the time it comes time to make them for her, her argument about the Argon will have been proven false.
Len
Now go melt something.
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Len
Instagram @lenny_gforce
Len
- MinnesotaDave
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I see no danger based on your description.
Your car pulling in and out of an attached garage has the potential to create more hazard in my opinion.
Your car pulling in and out of an attached garage has the potential to create more hazard in my opinion.
Dave J.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~
Syncro 350
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Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~
Syncro 350
Invertec v250-s
Thermal Arc 161 and 300
MM210
Dialarc
Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
John, just don't weld with the door closed. For your lower room, keep a window open just a crack, even if it's cold outside. When you're done welding, close the windows. Peace of mind.
"Let's light the fire an' brief on guard.". RIP Lt. Col Stan "Red Dog" Nichols. USMC. Fighter Pilot. Korea, Vietnam. MCAS El Toro.
There have been several reports of kids playing with car keys with remote starters.
The end result was that the car inadvertently got started in a closed attached garage
and the occupants of the home were found dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.
http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/ca ... r-starters
I wouldn't be so worried about the Argon gas, but the other toxic fumes that welding inside
an enclosed space can create. I used to weld in my basement with my MultiPlaz welder.
It works on water as a fuel, and appears to not give off any odors or fumes.
I had not considered the fact that the molten metal may be the danger and not the torch.
Moral of the story, is that if you are welding inside, adequate ventilation may be your best friend.
The end result was that the car inadvertently got started in a closed attached garage
and the occupants of the home were found dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.
http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/ca ... r-starters
I wouldn't be so worried about the Argon gas, but the other toxic fumes that welding inside
an enclosed space can create. I used to weld in my basement with my MultiPlaz welder.
It works on water as a fuel, and appears to not give off any odors or fumes.
I had not considered the fact that the molten metal may be the danger and not the torch.
Moral of the story, is that if you are welding inside, adequate ventilation may be your best friend.