[Kaino]

So I'm still at TAFE and have just finished my 5.15 MMAW, My current lecturer is an International Welding Specialist and Welding Inspector so I've learned heaps of stuff from him. well we had a substitute lecturer yesterday and my last weld was
a 2G 75x75x10 EA (which to me is angle Iron) aka "Equal Angle" well the sub was saying it was (what I had done earlier in the week) A 2G 10mm bevel bar using 3.2mm E4110, E4113...... Ok then he must just be having a brain numbing moment i thought.

Another guy in my class is doing TIG and wanted a demo but the sub couldn't do it and disappeared into a cubical for a couple of hours to practice himself..

AND with the Plasma cutter he was trying to use it and couldn't get it to work so smacked the torch on the table couple of times thinking it would make it work (ended up breaking the torch tip)

Turns out that the he had the ground clamped onto the part of the table that was PAINTED! but didn't check that at all and left a note on the main lecturers desk "plasma cutters f*^%d"
now to me (correct me if I'm wrong) having a good ground is one of the first and most important things you learn

that's all in one day, the class has him for the rest of the week thank god I finished early
I really don't understand how someone could have a job teaching others when they don't know themselves!

has anyone else had experiences like this?

[79jasper]

Yep.
My instructor this phase doesn't know mig/fcaw very well, but that's what he's "teaching" us. Lol

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[Drifta-X]

I had gumby teachers full time, be lucky that u only got one as a temp

[MinnesotaDave]

I've helped a few high school teachers get better, but I've found that they won't commit the practice needed to actually master more than flat welds - pretty frustrating to know they can't do what they are paid for and won't actually do anything about it.

[Otto Nobedder]

That sucks OUT LOUD, where everyone can hear the sucking sound.

A teacher that doesn't know the craft he's paid to teach? Damn. It would be my nature to shame him in public.

Does that make me an asshole?

[MinnesotaDave]

That sucks OUT LOUD, where everyone can hear the sucking sound.

A teacher that doesn't know the craft he's paid to teach? Damn. It would be my nature to shame him in public.

Does that make me an asshole?

Not in my book! Every other profession, other than teaching, the guy would get laughed at all day.

Becoming a teacher after years in blue collar jobs has been a major eye opener to say the least...

Two of the shop teachers said it's very intimidating to have me around (I teach math btw)

....and several teachers (and 2 principals) consider me an asshole for pointing out this stuff...

[Superiorwelding]

That sucks OUT LOUD, where everyone can hear the sucking sound.

A teacher that doesn't know the craft he's paid to teach? Damn. It would be my nature to shame him in public.

Does that make me an asshole?

Human.
-Jonathan

[Fat Bob]

That sucks OUT LOUD, where everyone can hear the sucking sound.

A teacher that doesn't know the craft he's paid to teach? Damn. It would be my nature to shame him in public.

Does that make me an asshole?

Human.
-Jonathan

+1 Actually I can think of a couple things better than "shaming him in public" but I'll leave it alone.

[mcoe]

DISCLAIMER FROM AN EDUCATION MAJOR:
I am an agriculture education major and a main part of our curriculum is Ag. Mechanics and a lot of Ag. Mechanics is welding. In our college classes this is what they teach us: This is a welder, this is how you turn it on, run these different beads and turn them in. We are "taught" how to mig, stick and oxy/acetylene weld. They do not even mention tig. They don't teach us how to set machines, they don't cover out of position welding it is all flat. That is what they are teaching us to teach our students. I absolutely hate the program and have considered getting my masters just to come back to the university to teach Ag. Mechanics at the college to straighten it out. Burns me up when people half A things. They do not even cover safety and that is how I burnt my eye and messed my perfect vision up. Sorry I am ranting again.

[MinnesotaDave]

DISCLAIMER FROM AN EDUCATION MAJOR:
I am an agriculture education major and a main part of our curriculum is Ag. Mechanics and a lot of Ag. Mechanics is welding. In our college classes this is what they teach us: This is a welder, this is how you turn it on, run these different beads and turn them in. We are "taught" how to mig, stick and oxy/acetylene weld. They do not even mention tig. They don't teach us how to set machines, they don't cover out of position welding it is all flat. That is what they are teaching us to teach our students. I absolutely hate the program and have considered getting my masters just to come back to the university to teach Ag. Mechanics at the college to straighten it out. Burns me up when people half A things. They do not even cover safety and that is how I burnt my eye and messed my perfect vision up. Sorry I am ranting again.

Your experience is actually why I became a teacher - complete BS in multiple classes by people who don't actually know a damn thing.

I don't mean that statement as a slam on all educators - just the ones I had who couldn't do anything or teach anything...

I even had, and still have, arguments about making students wear safety glasses...completely pisses me off to see classes without safety glasses or hearing protection.

Rant over for now...

[mcoe]

That is the thing there were no hearing protection rules, they provided ear plugs but never enforced any rule, they said we had to have safety glasses but didn't have to wear them. The thing that got me was in high school we had to yell cover and count to 3 before we strike an arc to let everyone in or around our booth know we were striking an arc. At college, not a thing was said about that. I walked in to help someone in one booth and the person beside them lit up without warning. I went in to find the oxy/act bottles still on most the the time, the argon bottles left on. They were running 40 cfh through the mig welders and couldn't figure out why they were using so much gas, everything was in the flat position with no wind. Oxy acetylene was set incorrectly. I found the oxygen set to around 60 psi and the acetylene set to 15 psi. I had to decide between shutting it down or running like heck.I am just waiting for that place to get shut down.

[danielbuck]

“Those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym.”

― Woody Allen




I've found in general, this is more true than not (well, maybe not the Gym part, haha) I've not taken classes for metal working or anything, but in other areas I've taken classes. There are always some instructors who are absolutely great, they know their stuff, and they know how to teach it. Then there are always some who don't really know their stuff top notch, but they know it well enough to teach the basics, so it's not a complete loss when teaching newbies.

But then there's always a hand full that just flat out don't know their stuff, AND don't know how to teach. haha! Usually compounded by an ego

Just because someone has a police badge on doesn't mean he's honest, or really protecting and serving. And just because someone is an instructor, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about


make friends and ask questions of the instructors that DO know their stuff, and try to avoid the ones that don't. If you think your instructor doesn't know his stuff, then drop the class, and request to take the class again with a different instructor. You're paying for the education, might as well try to get the most out of it! If you can't drop the class, at least get some good seat time

[79jasper]

Well said. [THUMBS UP SIGN]

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[Drifta-X]

If it wasn't for this forum I would have had so much more of a hard time in my class.
As an example the way the teachers where grinding the tungstan.
I'm only a noob but we all know grind marks to go down the length, not against.
I managed to find it in my pocket book and showed them, they where like "oh I didn't know that"

[Superiorwelding]

If it wasn't for this forum I would have had so much more of a hard time in my class.
As an example the way the teachers where grinding the tungstan.
I'm only a noob but we all know grind marks to go down the length, not against.
I managed to find it in my pocket book and showed them, they where like "oh I didn't know that"

Wow!!
-Jonathan

[Otto Nobedder]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

I tried that in two different high schools and the teachers wouldn't do it - I think we all know why.
They also would not use textbooks nor the videos sitting right there on the shelf....
I even offered to give the URL for any pertinent weld they were learning.
I personally showed the teachers some of the videos - still no dice.

As a result, any student that showed interest I told them about this site and weldingweb.

I also sat in with kids when I had time and welded with them - a little "I do" then "you do" to help them along.

I'm still going to keep trying though.

[mcoe]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

I showed the parent site to my professor and he started watching Jody's videos and I will be student teaching at the high school level this fall and plan on using this site as much as possible and push my students to get involved.

[AKweldshop]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

I showed the parent site to my professor and he started watching Jody's videos and I will be student teaching at the high school level this fall and plan on using this site as much as possible and push my students to get involved.

[Drifta-X]

Maybe, with time and patience, we can push this forum to High-School- and Vocational- level teachers, as a resource to give a better experience to their students.

This is worth a push, if we can find a path to push it down...

Steve S

U heard of the saying "trying to push shit uphill"
The path is up hill and this topic is good shit

[Boomer63]

As a welding edu-ma-kater ... eda-a-ma-kashun ... uhh ... a welding teacher, this is a sore subject for me. I have seen too many guys who are teaching a process and DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT! I mean .. WTF!!

But teaching someone to be a welder/metal fabricator is more than just processes and blue prints. It is learning familiarity with the equipment, lay out and fit up, and job professionalism, which is learning how to think, act and TALK like a journeyman.

I don't have a degree. I don't know they way an educated instructor would do it. Buy my crew (class) learns to weld in all positions. They learn to maintain their work space and keep the shop clean and orderly. They know the tools and metal working equipment, and are familiar with how to use these things. By the time they are done, they don't look like geeks running around in green jackets, they talk, think, move and act like WELDERS! Which is the goal! They learn what it takes to get hired and keep a job. What behavior is acceptable in the work place and what is not.

So who would you rather learn from? Take two instructors (assuming both can teach), one has 20+ years of experience in all types of work environments (manufacturing, fab shop and field construction), using multiple process on the job, but has no degree. The other guy has a nice four year degree. He can build the little box that is used in welding competitions in less than 45 minutes. He had a job playing welder at one company for five years. WHO do you want to learn from? Seriously! Just about any college boy will take the cat with the degree over the cat who doesn't have one. But again, as a student, who do you want to learn from?

[79jasper]

But the problem here is, what if the person with 20 years experience can't teach worth a chit?

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[Boomer63]

That sucks OUT LOUD, where everyone can hear the sucking sound.

A teacher that doesn't know the craft he's paid to teach? Damn. It would be my nature to shame him in public.

Does that make me an asshole?

No, it doesn't, but this happens all the time. I got into teaching after some work accidents; it was going to be a few years before I would be able to go back into the field to work. Here are some quotes I have picked from other "welding educators" over the few years I have been teaching:

"Wow, for that project you really had the students to it right!" (Because I don't teach the "half-assed method")
"They really don't need to know blue print reading, someone at the work place is always there to show them how to put it together". (Then how did that 'one guy' at the shop learn to read prints?)
"A welding shop is always messy, so I don't have the students pick up, sweep up or put things away". (I wonder where this guy works??)
"They don't learn anything from metal fab projects". (I guess knowing how to do fit up isn't important??)
"Professionalism is something they learn on the job - there is no way to teach it anyway" (Sort of like teaching shop safety??)
MY ALL TIME FAVORITE!!! ~
"Vertical UP! NO ONE does MIG vertical up!!" (Apparently they don't do vertical up at the trailer factory or the farm where this guy works)

[MinnesotaDave]

I think the ones I've heard are worse....

All below are high school welding shop teachers.

"I don't teach stick because everything is mig nowadays"
"I don't make them practice because they don't want to - I just let them make stuff." (With the mig improperly set)
"I don't know how to set up the mig."
"I don't know what rod to use."
"I don't know how many amps to tell them."
"I only teach flat because I'm not good at the other positions."
"I've never welded overhead."
"Last time I did a vertical weld was in college." (20+ years ago)
"I don't know what the difference between 6013 and 7018 is anyway."
"I know the numbers mean something, but I don't understand it." (Stick electrodes)
"I don't use the textbook because kids don't like to read."
"Is fluxcore even necessary to talk about?"
"It doesn't matter anyway - I've only got 6 years left until I retire." (What the f__k is wrong with people!!)

This is just the stuff off the top of my head....there's more....

[Superiorwelding]

I think the ones I've heard are worse....

All below are high school welding shop teachers.

"I don't teach stick because everything is mig nowadays"
"I don't make them practice because they don't want to - I just let them make stuff." (With the mig improperly set)
"I don't know how to set up the mig."
"I don't know what rod to use."
"I don't know how many amps to tell them."
"I only teach flat because I'm not good at the other positions."
"I've never welded overhead."
"Last time I did a vertical weld was in college." (20+ years ago)
"I don't know what the difference between 6013 and 7018 is anyway."
"I know the numbers mean something, but I don't understand it." (Stick electrodes)
"I don't use the textbook because kids don't like to read."
"Is fluxcore even necessary to talk about?"
"It doesn't matter anyway - I've only got 6 years left until I retire." (What the f__k is wrong with people!!)

This is just the stuff off the top of my head....there's more....

, that is all I can say.
-Jonathan